I just want to say it could be very exciting doing a coordinated drop explode with Liu Xiang right into the middle of the enemy link team just after deploying a mine next to said link team :) Super happy for the release, fluffy and seemingly competitive, but not overly so. Still sad Hac Tao only AVA 1!
I think it's less about telling you to stop the critical tone (that's a bit of a strawman), and more advice on how to function as a reasonable human. Accusations of thin skin can be levelled in all directions, but rarely does that make for constructive dialogue. It seems a lot of the criticism suggests that CB haven't given the matter (for example of the Zencha's vulnerability to shock) any thought, although I very much doubt that's the case. What we as players want isn't the same as what's good for the game, and that's a bigger concern for CB.
While I agree, please bear in mind that people making these remarks aren't the same ones that deal with the feedback. Bostria's remarks might be annoying at times, but it doesn't mean people should take their frustration out at random CB employees.
Ran my first two IA game against Tohaa, MO. I used three TA Zuyongs in a single core team, (2 HMGs, 1 Haris) And boy they were bulldozers. Effectively soaking the shots with their pure ARM and Wound - which each piece was able to maintain at their full potential. I was quite amused when the wound soaking ended on interlocking flash pulse and ARO piece. After being hit by suicidal Nanopulser of Neema's lament. From then It felt like cheating. Three tactical awareness to drag along all your link is something which really ruin your opponent's day. Taking out the Gao-rael with ease, Sukeul team tried in vain against BS 16 HMG bulldozer - he did a crit, but after killing Sukeul 2W Zuyong tagged the job; the link just did not stop. Turn 2 ended on Gorgos going down, Sukeul destroyed, and Ectros losing his Symbio armor. After neema's suicidal run Panggo go down, but it just made me reform a haris and take out the rest. Some thoughts; Zuyong Full Link is awesome as you guys expected. Daoyings, I would really kiss this unit. Very versatile, I admit it was very amusing to see my Lt prone at safe place, using his Lt orders to supportware, saying 'yeah Imma a lt, so what?' Zhenchas are pain in the eye. Your opponent need to think; take out the Prone Camo guy ignoring the pain train, or go heads-on with the pain train. Haidaos, a multi-toolkit. I had three matches today, one win to Tohaa and one loss to MO (and due to time issues one Tartary match was canceled while playing.), I used engineer profile; to fix up Panggo. It worked. Panggos are hilarious. LSG goes into BS 20, which gets moar fun when you put Daoying's ass-fire. Something to reinforce upon, and need for some advise; ARO piece. Wouldn't mind a Yan Huo at the support group dog next time. Zuyongs are tight, but I feel losing one by one is like being peeled like an Orange. TR bots did their job, TBH. Wildcard secure. On the match I lost (MO), I lost Haidao to a lucky shot of HRL OS. Which later turned out I cannot go back into full link. Maybe, Maybe I'll use Zhanshi cannon fodders to attract shots, so I can preserve Zuyongs. Shang Ji.. AHD.. Welp, should I try. SSL2 AHD could be useful, with Deflector L2.. and Daoying Fairy Dust. It's real fun to play, thats for sure.
I appreciate the feedback, but I have to point out that while the designers and developers job includes getting the feedback and deciding on what to make out of it, the feedback givers job is to make their feedback as readable and useful as possible. I gave you some fair and detailed instruction on what is the best way to submit feedback and be heard, be clear and as detailed as possible, descriptive of the problem and polite, offer insight on why you feel something is the problem or why something actually works and why you like or dislike something. "X sucks" is as useless information as it may get without been a non information.
Mmmm... Ok, I think that you may be probably more interested in design as basic ideas for the conception troop itself. That's absolutely Gutier's territory I can give you some insight about the concept design behind the Zencha. It was after Adepticon 2018 when Carlos Torres made the concept designs for the troops that were already on paper as basic troops profiles (without certain tweaks that came after many testing sessions), but the main ideas where there: combat jump Heavy infantry, Massive silhouette 5 tank guy, elite sniper, heavy weapons platform guy and cammo dude who gets the job done. The Hulang was not in that initial bunch. The art director begun to use the manniquin of the previous Zuyong Invincible as the base for all these variations and building layer over layer different helmets, and distinctive elements. Something "new" that Torres put into these designs are the texturized areas in the surface of the designs. that is something that translates into 3D in very peculiar ways, I'm pointing at those stripes zones. In terms of color, well, I'm totally against cheating the canon sectorial color palette wich is what CT did with that blue scheme for the Daoying. Because he is the director and he is allowed to cheat whenever he wants. XDXD Maybe you were asking more about the troop profile, but as I said, those are the dark dungeons where Gutier crafts his evil magic.
Huh, interesting. I assume the Hai Dao is that ''heavy weapons platform guy'' and the ''elite sniper'' is the Daoying? 'Cause if so... that's actually kind of interesting how those two turned out. The ''heavy weapons platform guy'' becoming more of a support platform ( A very stylish looking support platform at that. ). And the ''elite sniper'' becoming a SUPERB command unit... that can also be a rather nice elite sniper. Funny how things turn out, eh?
Well, it looks that Hai Dao are Marines (judging from their logo, I don't have the book in hands yet). I think that providing specialized combat support is perfectly up their alley.
From the tid bits people have posted the Haidao are a naval unit attached to the IA. Their name also means pirate if that helps :P
That is pretty cool! Are you going to do an "introducing..." feature, like you did for JSA? And, yeah, summoning Gutier would also be much appreciated, whenever the army gets released!
Thanks, for the info. Super interesting. Would it be possible to do an interview/translation of Gutier's design magic so we can understand the logic of building the units? Now, from everything I've seen, I'm probably going to always be taking a Mowang, which will be fun and while he looks like a beast of a unit, knowing why the choice against full auto or fatality like other similar units get would be great conceptually. Or the balance reason why the Zhencha is the lone HI without shock immunity (direct or included like bioimmunity). I feel like having a bit more information regarding the choices would go a long way toward people settling down. More information makes people feel better.
I don't know about that. I think more information makes people feel better if it leads to something they want. More information that leads to something people don't want tends to not make them feel better. As far as design and balance I dont think they could give any answers that would please everyone. Not to mention those answers being used again again during future releases. I'd assume they wanted the zhencha to be susceptible to shock ammo because they wanted it to be that way.
Beautiful models as always! To use the Americanism, they're Seabees. Naval Construction Battalions. Combat engineers, EOD specialists, etc. They're actually trained as infantry, and work decently well with Marines. But being a Naval unit, there's always going to be friction with Army troops.
OK, thank you. That's actually the kind of response I was looking for when I asked about why the Daofei and Tiger weren't in the Invincible Army, even though their fluff or dossier says they were. Guess we need to summon @Interruptor for that answer, though.
Hmm, played around a bit with Invincible Army and played with the resulting Invincible Army list. I think there is a very real risk that this is going to be a sectorial that will need fixing two or three years from now similar to Military Orders. The sectorial will potentially boil down to, just like MO used to boil down to the TOOFOS, this specific profile: 11 ZÚYŎNG (Fireteam: Duo, Tactical Awareness) HMG / 2 Breaker Pistols, Knife. (1.5 | 38) Because Tactical Awareness is limited to a specific small set of profiles, there's a lot of profiles that would normally find a reason to exist inside their sectorial as fillers for the fireteam that just won't here. In a normal sectorial you would only rarely make a list containing 2+ HMG profiles while ignoring the Missile Launcher profile and the HRL wildcard. And yes, it's possible for this type of unit to act as a leafblower against an army lacking one of the key components of necessary to challenging it, but at the same time it's fully possible for the IA army to just design itself in such a way that your opponent's list becomes a skew against it - not because your opponent skewed their list, but because the IA player ran out of points to add in the list variety needed or because the IA player simply didn't have the necessary tools available. On a low level it's possible to critique units on an individual level but each individual unit (with one notable exception in the Shang-Ji) are fine. It's the high level design of Invincible Army that I am not convinced by. When building lists for JSA I can make a lot of different designs. When building lists for ISS I can make a lot of different designs. When building lists for Ikari, it's the same story, I don't need to make lists that are roughly similar to feel that it's an interesting choice to choose to play the sectorial. All of those designs share that you're able to mix and match different units to accomplish different things, you can build tall and you can build wide (in case of ISS, very wide). For IA it's more like Druze, it's kind of a mono-build where the supporting elements are going to vary, but the core of each list is going to be roughly the same. My initial reaction to the high level concept of Invincible Army is thus: I think there is a very real risk that there are too many vulnerabilities and weaknesses designed into the sectorial.
Been thinking about this one a fair bit. With the very important caveat that the Zhencha is one of very, very, few ways of taking on a Heckler, ZuluJammer, or infiltrated repeater; I'm inclined to think the same about the Zero, because my oh my does the Zero have nearly everything the IA is missing for a price that the IA could really use a unit option at. Swap ya Zhencha for Zero?
Yeah which is why they don't have it, the Zero is a very cheap and optimised control troop that IA shouldn't probably have. Just like how Bakunin shouldn't get Hac Tao or whatever. The Prowler is supposed to be doing the job of being a relatively elite midfield guy but he's literally the only Nomad troop I consider lacklustre, didn't even get anything from ITSX. Not that one can really complain otherwise! Zhencha is a great troop IMO, in IA and Vanilla YJ.
To be entirely fair as Nomads with really cheap troops there would be a wild party if the Zhencha profile was available to them and you can guess why it is not, I think it is a great profile for IA and a good one for generic Yu Jing too.
