I have to say I also love Orcs since I started playing. That super cool looking Icestorm Orc was fun to play, painting it was a pleasure, and it looks glorious on the table. It was the strong easy to use HI. But of course after few games you grow out of it and substitute it with Aquilas and Swiss Guards. So I'm really happy they get a privileged place in Varuna. In a sectorial where we have great LI troops to do the heavy lifting, I can see myself using 1 or 2 orcs to spearhead fireteams, be a hard ARO piece or bringing it to defend an area with some good old suppression fire. Also really looking forward for that Patsy Garnett miniature. All hail the glorious Varuna Division Orcs.
Yeah, I think you accidentally messed up your calculation there. The Kamau is carrying a Combi in a few of them. The Kamau is a whole 10% better than the ORC against a TR bot if you equip them with identical weapons.
haha, I know, just being cheeky I just feel as though the ~40 points spent on the croc can just be better spent elsewhere without sacrificing ARO game or board presence. Crocs are also suited much better for the mid-field objective grabber, which we have few options for. One of the biggest hurdles for me with VIRD is keeping in mind when building lists that PanO can actually use an AD guy effectively. if you want "interesting" deployment, or a surprise for your opponent, this is the way to go. Bringing a B4 weapon for so cheap, I find it tough not to use him in my secondary group almost every time.
Yes, but the Orc can take a wound and keep going. Theres a point in list building where you want some durability to guard against failure because the odds will not always be in your favor.
I totally agree. Infinity is a game where you can always eat a lucky crit. I was just pointing out that the stats presented weren't really true.
That's embarrassing, all I did was swap troopers out, not sure why it reset. However, not all instances is the Kamau a better trooper. I find it disappointing that you've decided to call out a mistake on my part, but are fine with the general, unsubstantiated claims that I was refuting. I mean I can just wave my hands and say stuff too, it's certainly a lot less work.
I apologize. I didn't mean to call you out or anything! I think both units have their merits in different situations. I just wanted to be sure, if we're talking statistics, that everything was in order.
yikes. If you have a problem, you can just say it. I figured we were just having a friendly conversation. To be fair, the one instance in which the ORC is better than the Kamau by ~5 percent you've deliberately chosen dodge as the ARO. I don't need to tell you why this is actually negligible.
Oh we are, I just get frustrated sometimes with people making claims, not backing them up, and then when you show some stats, and you make a mistake with one, people want to call you out on your one mistake. You're correct I picked dodge, since that's what I would do with my Chasseurs. Might be interesting to see what happens when other people dodge as well. If you're dodging you're not going against the Kamau's mimetism, which reduces it's advantage quite a bit vs the orc. Other places where the Kamau is not as good as the Orc is up against people with visors. But you're correct, we agree that the differences aren't significant, the biggie is taking that wound when things go sideways. Further I don't necessarily expect a big difference, HI have always been slightly better, not amazingly better. And let's face it the Kamau has a better BS than almost all MI in the game, and on par with most HI.
Pure statistics in a face to face roll is a pretty narrow view of evaluating the efficacy of a unit. Kamau are great, but spending 5 orders advancing one and then losing it to a Suppressive Fire crit is disastrous. Orcs are reistant to that. Play some games and you will see the value that ORCs offer.
Vet Kazaks are an amazing unit, but they're not Orcs amazing! :) Seriously, I like playing Ariadna, but their HI are a bit frustrating outside of the Kazak, because of the lack of a second wound.
Veteran Kazaks are one of the best basic HI in the game. At first glance its an unfair comparison but there are advantages that the Orc has over the Vet Kazaks. First and foremost is that Orcs can be healed by a doctor. Another advantage is that Orcs have a strong ARO in the Feuerbach. Vet Kazaks lack any strong long range ARO.
I would like to say dat ORCz iz made fer fightin' an' winnin'. Okay, on a more serious note, even if the ORC lacks any fancy tricks, the simple fact of it having 2W and 14PH allows it to wade through certain places no Kamau, Echo, Zulu or Croc Man could ever dare enter: mine/DTW-fields. And for that simple "Crit me once, that was rude. Crit me twice, fine I'll go down." factor are not only some reasons why I'd like the ORC, but also a few of the reasons why I like HI in general.
Haris Patsy+Kamau HMG+random (don't put ORC those are useless profiles) Nimbus+ with HMG in a haris is B4 and -6 malus to BS, for the target it's -6nimbus + -3mimetism + -3cover so most of target without in +3 range band of their weapons will be unable to shoot back but it doesn't work on camo/odd etc ... because you also have -6 to BS
Nimbus+ is our weird way of having smoke to cover objective grabbers. Those troopers being Croc Men. If you throw it on an objective, and the Croc Man is in cover, it's nigh impossible to hit without a visor.
They make Mines, Parrot, Peacemaker Flamethrower -6 to Dodge. Linked Kamau links can also shoot through Nimbus Plus and hit enemies in cover on 10s, while those enemies will be -1 Burst and -12 to be hit in return. So they're very good at making mines and templates better, or taking on a powerful defensive link team's heavy weapon, or even enemy Suppressive Fire. You don't always want to use them, but there are plenty of times where they're helpful in making engagements safer or more powerful.
