New profiles in Vanilla YJ

Add in some Nimbus and she'll be pretty nasty vs a Link. Pop the Leader and follow up with something to bust through their lines afterwards!

 

At BS21 before Camo MODs? That shall surely suffice.

 

It's an Entire Order now, but that's not really a problem if Lunah is still in marker state.

 

Well, again, depends on how you condition the local meta...
Here, people would actually assume that whenever I have a DZ camo marker, it's a Guilang Sniper, so I'm good-ish so far.
Should probably try massed snipers someday...

I have a reason: wading through minefields and DTWs. Seriously, those are a death sentence for a Tiger. The Liu though... the Liu cares not for your puny AP Mine-

Or they want you to take it with the Daoying Lt. Either or, really.
Also, with how much people locally like terrain zones, Multiterrain is a nice bonus thing in my eyes now.

I think it's a nice compromise between the Total Reaction and bog standard 8 pt profile.
It might not be good on the reaction than a TR Combi... but it's certainly better for zone contesting and defense than an Electric Pulse.
Can also be buffed for Burst 2 in ARO or into a practically BS20 LSG in the proper range band before camo. I honestly like this addition a lot.

 

I really hope that's not the case...

Most likely because my ( Again, probably highly unreasonable. ) play style of ''I wanna take all the TAGs and HI.''
And losing the greater variety vanilla grants me would really suck for that.

We shall see, I suppose.

 

I see a lot of vanilla combined for the aspects and vanilla haqq in the north of the UK but that would be a hell of a shake up. I'm half-dreading seeing what all the "you thought uprising was bad" is about to be honest. The vitriol uprising created is only gonna get worse if the new big-thing includes multiple factions

 

Oh vomit.

 

What are those things, if we may know?

 

@Space Ranger I quite like the mono CC weapon on the Hulang and don't forget that he can use D-charges as a CC attack against the AC unit. (EXP+AP at damage 14 will do the job better.)

The pangguling light shotgun is an awesome little surprise with assisted fire supportware, people do not like shock shotguns.

 

Overall, the Daoying is by far the most exciting actual unit that Yu Jing has grabbed. The stars are 100% the LT2 profiles, but that sniper with minelayer at 32 points is a steal even if it isn't generating orders for NCO's. It was the only genuine surprise unit in the lineup, and it was a pleasant surprise at that.

The Libertos are still hilariously good for the cost and allow basically anyone who isn't PanO to try their hands at mid-field camo spam. These little guys synergize well with our current mid-field lineup and both the 8 and 10 point versions are solid toolkits. Perfect fodder for a second hunter-killer group loaded with Kuang Shi to give them an order source without starving the main-line. Combines well with an attached Mowang NCO getting extra orders from a Daoying LT. I'm not a fan of fish folk, so I might look for some proxies for these, but the profile is a big boon to Yu Jing's mid-field (and everyone else's really).

The Mowang is a minor surprise, if only because the NCO synergy was unexpected. Until Yu Jing gets another NCO for the Daoying to feed, the Mowang is our main man. I was afraid this thing would just end up being a slow Su-Jian, but with the possibility of it just getting two spare orders it definitely has a place to call its own, and its low-SWC versions are solid if you want to run an SWC-hungry list without having to waste the LT2 on your Daoying.

Major Lunah definitely got a boost out of this, and with the Daoying we're finally starting to get a really decent set of back-line snipers to our name.

Hulang are interesting. I actually like them more than the Shikami they're aping (which is surprising given their heavier CC investment). They're generally better shooters than the Shikami were and they're a bit more well-rounded as mission-runners. I like FD2 better for designated button pushers since you tend to want them to get stuck in quick and while extra mobility is great for combat applications, it is also order hungry to really make use of and neither the Hulang or Shikami are mainline shit-kickers (though the Hulang is in my mind better as an overall gunfighter with twin-SMGs being punishing in the midfield and the combi+LFL being a great utility pick). The Hulang is basically what I wanted to the Shang Ji to be, so it will definitely see use in vanilla for me.

With Tactical Awareness and NCO in the mix, I think Zuyong have finally found a niche in some vanilla lists. A Tai Sheng+Zuyong duo can nom on up to three additional orders. So bring your EVO along and get a tight little specialist fireteam that packs a punch. Way more expensive than the old Wu Ming duo to be sure, but that Duo isn't just rolling in orders either. On that note, even as a 45+ point unit, Tai Sheng is solid. NCO means she brings order economy with her, she's an FO with WIP 14 making her an excellent specialist, BS14 makes her one of the best shots in the army, and her Mk12 profile is a great budget heavy-hitter when you can't spare the SWC but feel under-armed (plus a chain-colt for dealing with mid-field). I don't think the CoC version will see much use (49 points is steep, even on a unit that can take a hit), but the standard versions are both solid in vanilla if you're expecting to run a Zuyong duo.

Haidao are... they're weird. They don't feel like HI because they're so damn flimsy to the things that really hurt HI. In IA, they have their uses because they can hide behind a link. In vanilla, I think only the engineer may be worth a go because it can at least take a direct (non-E/M) hit and keep going and it is no matter what, better in most ways than the Mech-Engineer. But I just can't see a lot of vanilla uses for this quirky little beast. It is too flimsy to be a pocket beatstick (though it's cheap enough and light on SWC to the point where I don't think it is badly costed... it's more of an opportunity cost than anything, like taking support weapons on line troops in vanilla) and doesn't really behave like normal HI should. It's like a crappier, hackable, E/M vulnerable, budget Sophotect that can take a hit a bit better. Another cheap Alpeh knock off that happens to be HI. It makes more sense as utility filler in a beefy Zuyong link, or as a cheap and relatively sturdy CoC attached to a defensive Zanshi link. This thing is basically a budget link profile and not suited for a lot of roles in vanilla.

The Liu Xing, is, well we already have Tigers. They're cheaper, better shooters, and aren't wasting a single point on coming in via literally the worst and most risky AD method. The Liu Xing is merely uninspiring and its shtick is milquetoast at best. Anything you could have done with it, you can do better with a Tiger for less cost. Just save the points.

Yan Huo continue to be kind of boring and not really useful for much in vanilla. The Mowang and its order-synergy with the Daoying only solidify this. Too many points tied up in something that is slow and utterly without any skills that really help things win fire fights. We have much better straightforward beat sticks to offer in vanilla. No tweaks, this continues to be a pass despite the sexy mini.

Shang Ji? Ugh, we've been discussing how crap this thing is since N3 dropped (back when it had the HD, before they took it away for the same generic AHD as every other HI) and the solution was apparently Tactical Awareness (which they gave to the Zuyong as well, because the problem with those two certainly wasn't that they were stepping on each other's toes, no siree). It needed an overhaul to not just be pointlessly expensive name-brand Zuyong/Wu Ming and it feels like this update only made things worse. BTS6 and a flamethrower are not an identity, and they still aren't worth wasting the points for on this thing when "HI with template weapons" is kind of a thing we do in spades on much better chassis. Hard pass in vanilla still.

The Zencha is much less exciting in vanilla (if another Aleph HI-branded knock-off can be considered exciting). The SMG profile is solid because despite the shit going against it, SMG discounts and the marker state are basically always good in N3, even when they're attached to an otherwise crap profile. But given that we have the Guilang and Daofei in vanilla, I'd be hard pressed to see a use for this thing outside of camo-spam gimmick lists (which to be fair, we can do with the help of the Libertos now). Soft pass, vanilla can do better than this, but it isn't bad, merely uninspiring.

The new Pangguling profile is basically link filler and nothing more. At 13 points it brings nothing to the table you aren't getting better from our other remote options. The Chaiyi is a better ARO and its 4-4 MOV and LSG won't be winning it any awards in the active turn. Literally just a unit to give IA a cheap link filler because their shit is all expensive. May as well be listed IA Only.

Overall, vanilla got some straight improvements (Lunah and Libertos) and some cool new options and synergies (TacAwareness duos, LT2+NCO order havens, etc.) but in general, IA feels like another largely self-contained sectorial like ISS. Its best tricks are exclusive, and only a handful of its units work well outside of the sectorial. To me, the Daoying is the new star profile in vanilla and it plays well with the Mowang which gives it some life even with the stiff competition in vanilla. I personally like the Hulang quite a bit, but I can see why it won't be everyone's cuppa. The rest of the profiles range from "it's alright" to outright "meh".

This isn't great considering what we lost from JSA, but it at least isn't nothing and we have a bit more variety than we had for the past eight months. Hopefully it is enough to keep things interesting.

 

Edit: that came out way more dismissive than it should have.

I don't think comparing units to Aleph in terms of profiles and unit type is useful, they commonly break the norms for what certain unit types will have.

Expecting that in other armies is a road to dissapointment. Good thing there is a faction which can fulfill those desires though.

You have some good points durandal, but there's a ton of salt in there as well. I think your analysis is waaay too premature, and extremely dismissive of profiles for very little reasoning.

 

the new pangguling is a moving repeater for duos

 

I believe that's an attempt to stop it from stacking with surprise shot.

 

Except that Triangulated Fire (another Entire Order skill) stacks with Surprise Shot.

 

I am interested to know the mechanics of how and why that works, because I'd like to surprise shot people with MMLX