Just costs a lot. Mono weapon tax, skills bloat, and not true HI. I'm just very surprised. Was hoping for low thirties and not all those skills. Didn't even need Specialist Operative, but it'll do. Yeah, they should have seen that the Shang Just needed some love. Perfect world would have been a complete overhaul. For those that are upset with the Haidaos lack of BTS, Tai Sheng can make him a BTS6 Killer Hacker before you decide to sprinkle Fairy Dust. Gonna try some experimenting for sure. Best I could come up with for a first pass. Invincible Army──────────────────────────────────────────────────10 SHÀNG JÍ (Tactical Awareness) Spitfire / Pistol, Shock CCW. (2 | 45) HǍIDÀO Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Boarding Shotgun / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0 | 26) TAI SHENG (Chain of Command) Breaker Combi Rifle, Chain-colt + 1 TinBot B (Deflector L2) / Heavy Pistol, Knife. (0 | 49) SON-BAE Yaókòng Missile Launcher / Electric Pulse. (1.5 | 17) PANGGULING FTO (Repeater) Light Shotgun / Electric Pulse. (0 | 13) MÓWÁNG (NCO) Red Fury, Akrylat-Kanone / Heavy Pistol, Knife. (1 | 52) ZHĒNCHÁ (Forward Observer) Submachine Gun, D.E.P., Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 34) MECH-ENGINEER Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 15) YÁOZĂO Electric Pulse. (0 | 3) DĀOYĪNG Lieutenant L2 Hacker (Hacking Device) Boarding Shotgun / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 29) WÈIBĪNG Yaókòng Combi Rifle, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 16) 5 SWC | 299 Points
Zuyong Core with 0 (ish) Zuyong! ────────────────────────────────────────────────── 5 PANGGULING FTO (Repeater) Light Shotgun / Electric Pulse. (0 | 13) SHÀNG JÍ (Fireteam: Haris, Tactical Awareness) Combi Rifle + Light Flamethrower + TinBot B (Deflector L2) / Pistol, Shock CCW. (0.5 | 43) HǍIDÀO Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Boarding Shotgun / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0 | 26) SON-BAE Yaókòng Missile Launcher / Electric Pulse. (1.5 | 17) TAI SHENG Mk12, Chain-colt, Stun Grenade / Heavy Pistol, Knife. (0 | 45) 2 SWC | 144 Points Open in Infinity Army
Would you take some time to explain why to me please? I'm a noob player, way too much in the fan boy attitude anyway, so I do find every profile/adjustment interesting... So what's disappointing in the Hulang profile ? It's a 40+ profile specialized in close combat action. Dual SMGs + E/M nades + mono CCW (CC22 + MA3) sounds neat to me. Okay, we had to give up some discretion/surprise effect compared to Oniwaban to keep on same cost level... But in exchange, if you have a bad roll on your CC attack, you can survive the possible damage and go for another round of brawl. +Survivability in close, -Defensive at range, -Deployment shenanigans. Sounds cool. What am I missing dudes?
Low thirties would mean it would have to be Impetuous - Impetuous would be a real bummer in terms of skirmishing due to the cover issues now that it's invested in not one, but two SMGs. Monofilament Weapon isn't very costly as of HSN3, so I'm not sure I'd describe that as a tax. For me, this is a solid base profile that's a serious threat to just about anything, my personal disappointment with it is that it didn't get the opportunity to get just a tiny bit more expensive to get Super-Jump, +2 PH (for the grenades) or any level of marker state. How it'll actually perform I'd have to test. It's not quite like Shikami nor SMGuyken-9, but lands somewhere smack middle of Ryuken, Shikami and Tanko. Edit: Is THIS Master Chief?
Now. For realsies talk. The biggest blow for this army is the low number of Minelayers and Perimeter weapons. It's an army that really wants to play Limited Insertion, but it's missing the stuff that is costliest for your opponent to deal with when trying to attack your precious orders. Minelayer on the Daoying BSG and/or the Zhencha Mine profile would've gone a loooong way, and some Koalas on Haidao (or just about anywhere, really) would, too.
It's not quite that big. Honestly, Limited Camo and the associated points cost would have made this dude fantastic. Edit: I still see LOTS of dead Shang-Ji profiles :/
Camoflaged Daoying LT2 for 21 points with Mowang NCO is great. You could pump 12 orders into this 2.9 wounds monster in a LI list, with a pretty save LT, with a boarding shotgun and no wasted order for 0 SWC. You could even drag a 13 point Flammenspeer refill bot with you. Invincible Army ────────────────────────────────────────────────── 3 DĀOYĪNG Lieutenant L2 Boarding Shotgun / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0 | 21) MÓWÁNG (NCO) Spitfire, Flammenspeer / Heavy Pistol, Knife. (2 | 54) PANGGULING FTO (Repeater) Light Shotgun / Electric Pulse. (0 | 13) 2 SWC | 88 Points Open in Infinity Army But I must say that I also hoped for changed profiles with especially the Guijia and the ShangJi. The Guijia might be the best looking model I own, but the profile is only for connoisseurs of great looking armys. The "Pain-Train" might by runnable with Tai Sheng and the above mentioned Daoying. 12 to 14 Orders in the first turn in a effectivly BS16 link is brutal. Invincible Army ────────────────────────────────────────────────── 6 DĀOYĪNG Lieutenant L2 Boarding Shotgun / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0 | 21) SHÀNG JÍ (Tactical Awareness) Spitfire / Pistol, Shock CCW. (2 | 45) TAI SHENG Breaker Combi Rifle, Chain-colt + 1 TinBot B (Deflector L2) / Heavy Pistol, Knife. (0 | 45) HǍIDÀO Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Boarding Shotgun / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0 | 26) ZÚYŎNG (Fireteam: Duo, Tactical Awareness) HMG / 2 Breaker Pistols, Knife. (1.5 | 38) ZÚYǑNG MULTI Rifle / 2 Breaker Pistols, Knife. (0 | 31) 3.5 SWC | 206 Points Open in Infinity Army I still have to find room for the Hulang, Liu Xing and Zhensha, but that depends highly on the mission and on the opponent.
I like him. I think he’s a good addition as is. Limited cameo certainly would have been fun, but I think i’d have much rather seen hyperdynamics (I mean, yeah a flat out higher PH is even nicer than that). His mono weapon doesn’t care about low PH but a better dodge coupled with that kinematika would have been nice.
i'm loving all the possible synergies between profiles, NCO ( that don't break the link following the last pdf) tatical sense and wildcards. Quit Sad Guijia stayed like always but i think in IA will be more playable ( going on 10 model army ofc). Finally Tai Sheng NCO + COC + a leutinent L2 can be godly in haris
With plenty of troops that can soak a wound, I don't think mines and perimeter weapons are nearly as necessary as they are in squishy factions like Nomads. It's already going to take your opponent longer to chew through your orders when they're doing a wound and you're falling back into total cover, costing them orders, forcing further expenditure and not hitting your pool at all. Tohaa don't have many mine or perimeter weapon options but Symbiote Armour provides the same level of resilience to attrition order sapping warfare.
Personally, I was always looking at this more so from the perspective of Vanilla and a little bit in ''Can this make up for some of the losses after Uprising?'' And honestly, in my most honest and-not-shitposting ( That will come later, don't worry. ) opinion... I'm... kinda happy. It's hard to explain. Some things are either ''This is better than I expected''. Some stuff is ''This is not what I expected, but just as good as I expected.'' Okay, so, lets start with the Hulong. As much as I can see people comparing it to the Shikami... I have a feeling that it's, well... ''Oniwaban: What the hell is this?'' ''Hulang: I'm here to replace you.'' That is basically what I feel about the Hulang, they are here to fill the shoes the Oniwabans seceded out of. And... I think they fit them decently, actually. I mean, fact of the matter: the Oniwaban still does what the Oniwaban does best better than the Hulang can ever hope for, and for 4 points cheaper at least, which is surprise stabbing something really really hard with a Monofilament CCW. The Hulang... just isn't as good at that. CC22 MA3 Mimetism FD2 VS CC24 MA4 TO SupInfiltration. It just isn't that good at stabbing. But everything else? It shoots ''kinda'' better ( Higher BS, and better armed but doesn't have TO MODs, only having Mimetism instead. ), it can survive better ( A DTW, mine or a rogue crit will more or less be the death and demise of an Oniwaban... the Hulang can facetank a crit, DTW and mine if it ever needs to. And it has better ARM/BTS, so it even gets a better chance of not only happily tanking a mine/DTW, but even getting away scot free too. ), and it's even capable of scoring more points than one ( Can score HI/D-Charge classifieds, is a specialist. ). And just to tie a nice little bow on it... the Hulang has E/M grenades. That are essentially as accurate as it's guns up to 8''. It's... it's toolboxy. It can do many things, but it might not be the best at those things. But knowing me and my unashamed love for the Cranes toolbox capabilities... I... I can definetely see myself using a Hulang. And very gladly too. In fact... if we still had Oniwabans... and call me an insane person... but... I might actually pick Hulangs more often than Oniwabans. It's definately not what I was expecting... but it's just as good, if not better than what I was expecting of it. Now, lets address the big boy in the room, the Mowang... It's your Daiyokai on loyalty to the State Empire. And honestly... the Mowang looks great to me. Now, some might remember that I personally thought the Mowang needed just a teency, weency, itsy bitsy smidge of some spice to make it go from ''It's... decent?'' to ''Okay, I like this.'' We expected any combination of Fatalities, Full Autos, maybe Tactical Awareness... what we got is NCO. And NCO is just good enough to push it over that edge for me, partly due to us obtaining the Daoying Lt Lv2, partly due to it opening up a way to assure the Lieutenant order doesn't go to waste, which is something I, probably very unreasonably, hate letting go unused. And it might make a good enough Lieutenant itself IMO, since... it gets both SWC discounts AND points discounts on those profiles. It's actually more or less what I expected it to be: it's a beatstick, yes, but it has a it's own niche in the role of a beatstick, that being... an SWC cheap beatstick. And an SWC-cheap beatstick we got. Now, Hai Daos... I was excited about Hai Daos ( If my PFP did not make it sufficiently apparent. ). I like them! While I'm kinda sad the CoC profile isn't in Vanilla ( Although, let us be honest, the Hai Dao would have not only bullied Baos immensely with their own MSV2 MSR at that point, but also the poor Pheasants... ), they make for solid Engineers ( 13 points more than our pre-existing ones, but Hai Daos can actually go out there and do some work by themselves, unlike the Mech-Engineer that's basically stationary most of the time. Better armor, shoots better and has a pseudo second wound. ), they are now our cheapest KHD ( Albeit they lack any Surprise MODs compared to our other KHDs, and have tied lowest native BTS, but they're less than half the cost of a Hac Tao and three points less than the Kanren/Ninja KHDs, so fair enough. ) as well, and to top it all off... the cheapest 4 Burst gun carrying unit we have that isn't a Zhanshi/CG/ABH or a TR Bot/Rui Shi. And just to add an extra little cherry on the very tip of the top... MSV2 Sniper. I only have 2 complaints that are related to each other about the Hai Dao... it's only AVA 1 in Vanilla and why did CB bother putting a ''basic'' profile in it when the remaining 4-5 are just so great? So... I really do like the Hai Daos. The Liu Xing and Zhencha have been discussed to death already, so not gonna delve there all that much, but... I can certainly see myself using them in Vanilla and/or IA ( Good thing my local meta seems to not really use all that many repeater nets. ). Also, it was a pleasant surprise to see the new Zuyong profiles and the Pango LSG ( A nice compromise between the TR and regular 8 point profiles, IMO. ). Have yet to form any basic first opinions on the Daoying and Tai Sheng beyond ''You know what... I can appreciate these two. Yeah, they seem like they can work rather nicely.'' Only actually somewhat disappointing thing I can say about IA so far is... just how little the Shang Ji got changed. I mean, I like that it's getting something at least, at 45 points and 2 SWC for a Spitfire HI that brings it's own order, I can see myself using a Shang Ji now, so there's that.
He was always there. Nah, I just thought they had Limited Camos, that's why. Although I have to research Hulangs for sure.
