So how do you guys like it? IMO: + Holy sepulcer + Seraph + Santiago -Teutons still bad (also no core link?) -Tikbalang loosing mines, but not getting AP HMG -No change to Spec. OS rule (for the hacker) -No change to Father knight Any first impressions?
Be aware, there are likely still bugs. That Tikbalang HMG not being AP despite the background is likely a bug, particularly at its cost. The changes overall are great, Oh and FKs did change, FO LT is an option now
KoTHS gained 1 CC and 3 BTS, but they lost 1 PH and 1 armour. De Fersen dropped a couple of points. Father Knights profiles switched around a bit, and they gained Duo naturally. Also an FO Lieutenant.
+++ Auxbot on Seraph <3 + HMG on Seraph without Auxbot - it's always a nice option to have. Having a BS15 HMG with STR 3 is really needed for MO (as an alternative to Hospitaller HMG) + Santiagos (already discussen) + Fersen just became cheaper ++ KotHS and his slight change of -1 ARM and +3 BTS +- No major changes to FK (though linkability is really good and worth checking) +- Hospitaller getting cheaper but losing Magister (well also known) -- no changes to Order Sergeans (Specialist ones) -- Teuton lack of anything And now MO will always have to bring HI as they have no other Lt option xD (army quirk).
Overall MO actually got dumpstered Bad stuff: - no more Fusiliers, Fugazi still AVA1, Orders just got a lot more expensive - cheapest Lt is now 34|1 (Teuton Combi PZF) or 35|0 (Multirifle Hospitaler) fuck that in particular - KothS CoC (CoC more expensive than the actual Lt... yeah great) - (lack of) OS changes, i.e. Hacker still not linkable - lack of Teuton changes (no proper CCWs wtf?) - various mediocre stuff untouched (Crusaders, Blackfriar MSR, DeFe...) - AP HMG Tik at this moment (points say he has the AP HMG, and DA CCW but for 7 points over Mines, AP CCW and HMG that is kinda unacceptable to pay for) - no more Hospitaler + Magister goodness - no TAG Lt options (come on, really?) Good stuff: - OS filler in Hospitaler/Santiago teams - Hospitalers (obviously) - Santiagos (obviously) - new Teutonic Fireteam without Teutons (Santiagos + Magisters basically) - Teuton Spitfire NCO to somehow salvage that Lt Order - free Superjump for Seraph Auxbot - new cheapo Seraph HMG (trust me on this one, Superjumping BS15 FAT1 HMGs with dual DTW and EXP CCW are gold) - Dart Meh stuff - KothS Spitfire FD2 (57 is a lot of points, dropping ARM and PH is neat and all, still friggin expensive) - FK FO Lt.... I guess there is this one mission where I might like to have that, maybe. Not gonna lie this looks bad compared to old MO. Which was very unflexible but at least functional. The same kind of list as before is going to have an exposed LT and less Orders, which is just great from a general listbuilding standpoint.
Just did few qucik lists: Boy fitting non-Joan Lt in MO will be hard. Obviously I mean "Lt who makes sense and do not charge head first into enemy".
I actually like the sepulcar changes, I never used him before because I saw no point in running him, but with the updates i might try him out. Also for the people who griefed the loss of the old montesa, we got back a FDlvl2 LGL
CB dude 1: "Hey let's give those guys a 50 something points CoC guy!" CB dude 2: "Erm okay, that's gonna be used for a TAG with LT2 or something right?" CB dude 1: ".... wait that's nice things." CB dude 2: "Yep sounds awesome." CB dude 1: "Bostria said PanO can't have nice things..." CB dude 2: "Oh whelp, scratch that idea then. Do we need to readjust the Sepulcher now?" CB dude 1: "Naaaahhh it's almost Siesta time, it'll be fiiiineeee."
Ok, going methodically over this: + OS teams still restricted by the Specialist loadouts, but inclusion of BF and up to 3 F-Ks gives them a lot of options. Could be better, but it's still a step in a good direction. They can also send some weapons to HI links - and this applies to Konstantinos as well. + F-Ks seems to get more restricted at first glance, but it's an illusion. Built-in Duo allows them to team up with Santiagos or Joan. It's a duo that has immense potential. Joining OS team is a great perk, too. On their own they're still a solution in search of a problem, sure. + Santiagos were discussed at length, and their changes are great - with the exception of losing access to Boarding Shotgun, a questionable decision given their status of space Marines. It'll be missed. + Sepulchre picked up the LGL that Montesa dropped, with a more flexible delivery skill, too. CoC in MO is one of the biggest changes; it expands the potential of every aggressive Lt. we field. I really like the changes, getting +3 BTS in exchange for 1 ARM is a good trade, shame about that PH, though. Still, a much better unit. + Joan/Hospitaller deathstar being codified as Crusade Fireteam is nice, especially as it can include Santiagos, too. Won't be the most efficient use of points, but I see the appeal. + Seraph fixed and expanded, woo! + Tikbalang is pretty useful, especially when they'll fix that missing AP bug :P + Dart fits the sectorial like a fist fits a nose, but same thing can be said about Tiks, and it's a great unit. Not complaining. - BF sniper still as bland a loadout as they come. - Teutons are a missed opportunity. Additional loadouts are nice, but Hospitaller Haris with in-built Doctor is still a better choice, AP CCWs on unit whose defining skill is Berserk is a joke, and in general there's nothing about them that gives us a reason to field them over other knights. Also, I'd like to know if they're getting Core or not. Overall MO shifts into more top-heavy sectorial, but also one with increased flexibility. It definitely won't be a good fit for perv... people who need those cheerleaders, as can be seen in the comments above. It'll take some time to properly digest and test the changes, but between mixed links, getting access to CoC and KHDs, loaned units and some minor bugs getting fixed I'm really happy about MO right now.
Well current Lt options in MO makes me somewhat miss KotHS LT options now.... Also MO might be actually one of few sectorial (ok Onyx you was first) which can "reliably" run double TAGs....
That's great, though I'd really like to see it in the Army as well. Very few people will create armies with the book in hand. Excluding that information, especially on only some units, will make people confused.
Yeah, we've been through that before. If you're using Fireteams, you MUST reference the Sectorial chart - Army simply doesn't contain all the required information*, and never has. *I'd like that to change, but that's not going to happen any time soon.
Crusade Fireteam is quite a nerf over old Hospitaller with Joan one: they switched from + up to 4 Knight Hospitallers to + 4 Knight Hospitallers. If we lose one chap, crusade fireteam is gone for evah, am I right??? All in all I am far from having a clear idea about it all. Guess I need time to figure out what I like and what I don't and process it. At least Santiago Wildcard is a neat buff. Teutons on the other hand are still a big let down, I will use Magisters instead.
If the Fireteam broke, it can't be reformed. But it doesn't in itself break the Fireteam unless they were the Team Leader. EVO for TeamPro is going to be pretty useful if running the Crusade Core.
I do understand, but beforehand it wasn't as much of a problem; it'll become a bigger one, if more information will get excluded from Army. The issue is even more jarring, given that 1) there's absolutely no need for this, and 2) how come ORCs in VIRD can get a note about having Fireteam:Core, and Teutons can't? It's simply erratic. Also, one solution would be to add a Fireteam table to Army, to go with the one for hacking, for example. But it's not a task for one day, I know.
It looks like specialist sergeants can now be part of OS fire teams, no? It used to say there was a restriction around it, but I can't see anything either in army, or in the book, that says they can't be part of a team... or am I missing something?
