The heck are you even on about, he declared BS attack. and it absolutely can prevent him getting hit, thats very clear. There is no Skill "Smoke Dodge" There is BS ATTACK http://infinitythewiki.com/en/BS_Attack Yes they may dodge. They may also declare BS attack to shoot back such that it prevents them from suffering the attack but does not prevent the K-9 from being hit. From the examples http://wiki.infinitythegame.com/en/...Equipment&redirect=no#Impact_Template_Weapons Teardrop Impact Template example. Main target reacts by shooting. In his Active Turn, a Hellcat wielding a Boarding Shotgun, a weapon capable of using the Small Teardrop Impact Template, declares a BS Attack against three Fusiliers in a straight line before him. Since the Boarding Shotgun has B2, the Hellcat can make two BS Attacks, each of which, if the BS Roll is successful, places a Small Teardrop Template. The players check the Area of Effect of the Boarding Shotgun by placing the narrow end of the Template (Blast Focus) on the first Fusilier, and confirm that the Teardrop Template covers the other two Fusiliers as well. The first Fusilier, the only one with LoF to the Hellcat, declares a BS Attack as his ARO. It will be a Face to Face Roll with his BS against the Hellcat's two BS Rolls—for the Boarding Shotgun's B2. The other two Fusiliers do not have LoF to the Hellcat because the first Fusilier is blocking him. But, since they are affected by an Attack with a Template Weapon, they have the option declare a Dodge ARO. Each Fusilier can avoid the Damage by winning a Face to Face PH-3 Roll (the MOD is for dodging an Attack coming from outside their LoF against the Hellcat's two BS Rolls[[.]] Should the first Fusilier win his Face to Face Roll against the Hellcat, he would avoid the Damage from the Attack with the Impact Template Weapon. However, each of the other two Fusiliers would have to win his own Face to Face Roll using PH-3 against the Hellcat's Rolls to avoid the weapon's Damage The part in red being most relevant. see the BS Attack declared by the Devil Dog affects the Firer of the impact template, without having an impact on the outcome of the firers roll relative to the K-9
Still do not see your point :) As an irrelevant order, smoke dodge will not make this to face to face. The only face to face here is Bob vs k-9.
Assuming that Pali threw Smoke to obscure the LOF between Bob and Lali, why is this not FTF? Also good fucking Lord that was seriously difficult to understand.
Same with DD: Bob aro to k-9. K9 is idle, attack hits. Smoke dodge would be relevant if the attacks target DD. But no, it targets only the k9. You can only prevent the dmg from a template if you dodge, win the face to face as a main target or if the attacker misses.
Because smoke throwing only def the smoke thrower and nothing to do with the ftf roll between bob and Lali.
Lets see what happens in aro turn. Linked b2 HRL shoots DD and K9. DD declare Smoke dodge, k9 idle. B1: Bob rolls 4 against DD, DD rolls 19. No hit to DD, but k9 is idle so that will be an arm roll for him. B2: K9 got a direct hit. DD prevented the direct hit against himself with smoke dodge, but he cant defend himself against the template effect. (The only way here is Dodge) So k9 has to roll 2 arm, and DD have to roll 1 arm, because smoke still not def from templates.
How is it not face to face? It's explicitly stated to be in the rules! It does not cancel the attack entirely, but it does cancel it for Pali... The trooper who declared the Attack compares this Roll against each enemy trooper affected by the Template individually. Each enemy trooper affected by the template resolves his Face to Face Roll with the Template user independent of each other; the Face to Face Roll of one affected enemy trooper does not affect the Face to Face Rolls of the others (See the example below).
Nobody (well, one person) is disputing that smoke does not block the LoF of the blast focus of a template attack (either direct or impact). It seems you missed the last 6 pages when we went over this again and again. For the 5th time this thread: Does the smoke thrower have LoF to the attacker? yes Does the BS attack that laid the template require a roll? yes Does the BS attack that laid the template require LoF? yes Is the smoke placed in a way that blocks the LoF of the attack? This is the only point of contention and depends on whether you consider the attack to be the BS attack that initially placed the template or the template itself. If it's the former, then you can absolutely smoke dodge. If it's the latter, even the main target will not be able to smoke dodge an impact template as they are only affected by the attack because they are under the template in the first place. Choose your poison, then wait for CB to chime in.
Because the declared order is not relevant. It would be face to face of pali declares Dodge. But he attacks. It is a normal roll againts Bob for him, but he suffers 2 arm rolls.
wat? Teardrop Impact Template example. All targets react by Shooting. In the same example as above, imagine the three Fusiliers now have LoF to the Hellcat, and all three declare BS Attack as an ARO. In this case each Fusilier makes a Face to Face Roll using his BS Attribute against the Hellcat's two BS Attack Rolls due to his B2. Each Fusilier's result only affects him, and does not affect his comrades 'Face to Face Rolls against the Hellcat. Let's suppose the main target Fusilier wins his Face to Face Roll against the Hellcat. In this case the Attack against him is cancelled, and the Hellcat is forced to make an ARM Roll. However, the success of the main target Fusilier doesn't cancel the Attack of the Hellcat against the other two Fusiliers. Each of them must to face his BS Attack Roll against the Hellcat's two BS Attack Rolls. Fusilier 2 wins the Face to Face Roll against the Hellcat who is forced to make another ARM Roll at the end of the Order. However, the Fusilier 3 loses his Face to Face Roll, and he is the one forced to make an ARM Roll.
Smoke dodge def from Direct attacks: i shoot you. And do not def from an indirect attack: i blow up the guy next to you.
I mean, that's nice to say and all, but the rules seem to say otherwise. It's somewhat ambiguous at best, but read my checklist above (or the other 4 times it was written in this thread). Remember, as @daboarder pointed out above, that "smoke dodge" is just a special case of a BS attack. It lets you avoid attacks if certain conditions are met. Seems like all of those conditions are met to me...
There is only ONE distinction between PRIMARY and SECONDARY target. The Primary is the one who eats Crits. All the other rules for BS attacks are the same.
I'd argue there's at least two more, but they still don't alter anything about this discussion (MODs to the rolls from CH, and measuring range).
Except this : there is a need for LoF between the primary target and the shooter, not between the secondary affected trooper and the shooter. The secondary affected trooper just need to be under the template, no LoF here. For smoke dodge to work, you need to have a LoF between the shooter and the smoker AND this LoF has to be necessary for the attack (per smoke dodge rules), here there is none. No LoF to block means no smoke dodge. Your arguments for putting the DD smoke in the LoF between shooter and K9 make sense from a logical POW but is groundless when it comes to RAW
That isnt true. Rather (for both targets): There must be LOF between the attacker and the main target ("the enemy attack's LOF) and they must be affected by the template. Ie. in the situation where there is no LOF between the attacker and the K-9, then the attack would be invalid and the DD would not be hit by the attack. This requirement is the same for both targets (as we've demonstrated by reference to the rules multiple times). Thus the requirement for a valid Special Dodge is the same: they must both block the LOF between the attacker and the main target or they must both block LOF between the blast focus and themselves (which they cannot do). You can continue asserting that your position is RAW but it helps to cite rules to make that position convincing.
