Zhanshi? You mean CC14 Alguaciles? Again, best idea I can vaguely dredge up here in a half-asleep stupor is ''Better make sure they don't get too many orders for all of their fancy schmancy HI now?''
Name me one recent faction that was universally well received and not a minor to major disappointment to the player base of that faction. Even TAK was received with the stellar review of "mostly a huge buff to vanilla". I think CB mostly has a decent idea of what they want to do, but you and I don't necessarily agree with it nor like their vision. You might want Captain America but you get Captain Miller from Saving Private Ryan.
StarCo for one. And you only need to go and take a look at the Pan-O forums to see them excited about their new shit for obvious reasons. I don't recall the French hating their farewell adjustments either.
PanO, with the massive changes to MO (to the point of having to scrap all the old tacticas!) and Varuna. Those two are so good they make me want to play PanO, and I hate PanO!!!
I've read and heard more than one, let's call it detracting, opinion of Tunguska and the MO rework is a bit of a low bar of entry to be perfectly honest. But the point is that it's fair to say you're disappointed in how a unit or faction turns out, that you don't agree with what happens, that you wanted it differently - but it's not fair to say CB lacks their own vision or that they are stupid for what they want to do with the game. Far from everything they produce for other factions are universally hailed as the best thing ever, and it's not just Yu Jing players left disappointed by new content, that shit happens and deal with it and discuss it, but right now it's getting hard taking certain positions due to what's being said about CB staff that's quite frankly unfair and uncalled for.
What about StarCo? The only complaints I've heard about that one are it's Corregidor, but better. Which is more an indictment on Corregidor needing an update on their fireteams.
I've heard a few complaints by players who are fond of using "Their Dudes" that it loses everything that makes it good if you don't use Characters, up to and including nearly all its good Fireteam choices. The two people out there who still play using the Campaign rules for Character Death are almost as shafted as Steel Phalanx is should they use StarCo for a longer campaign. It's a big personal peeve of mine when a character is necessary to even use a major function like a Fireteam, which is why I am very happy with the new Wildcard rules that keep showing up on Characters; it lets them be useful and add versatility instead of taking it away. Back on topic, anyone have any preferences for Duos? Both units this thread is speculating on have options to form a Fireteam Duo, so Son-Baes, Panggulings, Shang Ji and possibly Tai Sheng can all join up with an aggressive solo attacker. Personally, I think the Pangguling will be fantastic if its TR profile is able to join the Duo due to its close-in reactive power and Repeater, and the Shang Ji Tinbot can help fend off hacking attacks while the pair advance through a Hacking Area.
Haidao + mowang, pretty much like a scarface + cordelia duo but with squinted eyes: big, sturdy, badass HI, moving around with its personal engineer to score some points and fix him in case of unexpected E/M / Oblivion. Or shang-jì with Tinbot-B against those nomads weirdos!
I disagree on that. Yeah, you lose options and very strong very unique things like Handleman in a link but you don't lose the ability to make good lists. Either way StarCo is strong as a faction and was designed by someone who knew what they were doing, the fact that people have personal hang ups about playing good models isn't really a factor here. Starco. Free Company of the Star ────────────────────────────────────────────────── GROUP 1 10 BRAWLER (Fireteam: Haris) Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 17) BRAWLER (Multispectral Visor L2) MULTI Sniper / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 28) BRAWLER Heavy Rocket Launcher / Assault Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 18) CSU (Specialist Operative) Rifle + Light Shotgun, Nanopulser / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12) ALGUACIL Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10) ALGUACIL Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10) ALGUACIL Missile Launcher / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 15) ALGUACIL HMG / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 18) ALGUACIL Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10) ALGUACIL Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10) GROUP 2 6 4 1 BRAWLER Lieutenant Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 16) IRMANDINHO Chain Rifle, D-Charges, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, AP CCW. (0 | 8) JAGUAR Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 10) JAGUAR Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 10) BANDIT Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Light Shotgun, Adhesive Launcher / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 25) HAWWA' (Forward Observer) Boarding Shotgun, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 21) BANDIT Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Light Shotgun, Adhesive Launcher / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 25) HARDCASE FRONTIERSMAN Tactical Bow, Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12) CSU (Specialist Operative) Rifle + Light Shotgun, Nanopulser / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12) CSU Boarding Shotgun, Nanopulser / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 11) 6 SWC | 298 Points Starco. Free Company of the Star ────────────────────────────────────────────────── GROUP 1 10 ALGUACIL Missile Launcher / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 15) ALGUACIL (Forward Observer, Deployable Repeater) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12) ALGUACIL (Forward Observer, Deployable Repeater) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12) ALGUACIL Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10) ALGUACIL Missile Launcher / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 15) BRAWLER Lieutenant Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 16) RIOT GRRL (Fireteam: Haris) Combi Rifle, Blitzen, Stun Grenades / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 30) RIOT GRRL Boarding Shotgun, Stun Grenades + TinBot B (Deflector L2) / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 30) RIOT GRRL Spitfire / Pistol, Knife. (2 | 34) HAWWA' (Forward Observer) Boarding Shotgun, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 21) GROUP 2 4 3 JAGUAR Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 10) JAGUAR Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 10) BANDIT Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Light Shotgun, Adhesive Launcher / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 25) BANDIT Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Light Shotgun, Adhesive Launcher / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 25) HARDCASE FRONTIERSMAN Tactical Bow, Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12) CSU (Specialist Operative) Rifle + Light Shotgun, Nanopulser / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12) CSU Boarding Shotgun, Nanopulser / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 11) 5.5 SWC | 300 Points Either of those work fine, and you haven't touched alternative elements like the Hellcats or Caterans.
I find it pretty ironic that the 2/3 of the examples to Mahatmori's question are the most recent releases / teased releases and being held up as to why CB are going to fuck up IA. So for actual releases we have Starco. 1/3 of mercenary factions released with absolutely no baggage in terms of design space (they don't need to balance sectorial units which will be available in a general faction with other tools). I guess thats either evidence that CB don't know what they're doing because most of the factions leave people underwhelmed or just whelmed. Or that people are notoriously fickle and normally want everything for free, normally with a huge dose of "fuck you i've got mine" kind of attitude towards balance (or equity).
You find it ironic that factions that have good, ground breaking profiles in effectiveness that cover weaknesses they've long complained about (KHDs that bring their own tinbots to links, that's new) shown get a way better community reaction than factions that are given either given garbage, or stuff that they've already got very similar options to because we already have an NWI model with the Mowang's stats. That's not ironic, that's about what any rational person looking at the situation would expect. If you want a good reaction show something cool like the Santiago rework, don't show some overpriced crap like the Liu Xing. But you know that goes back to the point of there's a good chance whoever was in charge of designing IA doesn't know what the fuck they're doing and they actually think the Liu Xing is a well costed unit that doesn't pack crippling weaknesses, and thinks what Yu Jing lacks is meathead beatstick number 5, or doesn't care because he thought meathead beatstick number 5 was a really cool concept and pulled the trigger on it anyway because MUH UPRISING FLUFF DAIYOKAI STOLEN TECH. So naturally they wouldn't understand the spoilers are going to get a whole heap of negative reactions because in their mind, they're doing nothing wrong. Yeah, but at the time they were paired with 9pt Keisotsu. So that doesn't really hold up.
I will grant you, those lists do look strong in the right hands. I have a personal bias against order spam thanks to playstyle preferences, so I sometimes miss cheaper options compared to stuff like the HI Core links. However, "personal hangups about playing good models" is essentially the reaction a lot of people had to Uprising's fluff, and there are several people who stated they left the game over it. I've seen at least a few people on the Yu Jing forum who won't use Kuang Shi because of their backstory. The "Your Dudes" phenomenon helps shift miniatures and attract new players who are into story and lore. IMHO the Santiago rework is just about the dullest part of the whole MO redesign. Sure, it has workhorse profiles in there that will be great for MO's core links, but all you talk about is the KHD. It's just a KHD. It could be an Order Sergeant with a KHD and Tinbot, and you'd still be over the moon about it. In truth, all it offers is good numbers, not new functionality. The Liu Xing, on the other hand, is exactly six points more than a Zuyong for something with triple the flavour and undeniable utility as a solo specialist and kill piece with a unique deployment style. To me, it is far more interesting then the Santiago, and I suspect a number of other players will agree. Please remember that "cool" is subjective, and try to be a little more polite to those with differing views. BACK ON TOPIC, I'm liking the idea of a Mech Transformer Hulang more and more. Another STR HI would synergise nicely with the extra Engineer options and AVA that IA is receiving, and for a much lower price point than the mighty Guijia, especially with a Hai Dao in tow, as @Sedral mentioned they can enter a Duo too. Would be a great option for tanking Warbands or knocking out Jammers before being fixed by the Hai Dao right behind it.
Uh what? The reaction to Uprising's fluff was "wtf my models don't work together anymore." There wasn't a hangup about not playing cool models, people like me were pissed off because they weren't allowed to use their cool models anymore. That's like basically the exact option of the situation. With wildcard? No shit, because that'd be a really good profile too. Remember, KHDs are new to MO, let alone KHD+tinbot, and address one of the major issues the sectorial had. It's no surprise people are eating that shit up. Hell, the entire concept of a wildcard KHD is a new deal, even OSS don't get access to that and they're a brand new sectorial for an Infowar competent faction. For Pan-O who have traditionally done nothing but suck ass at Infowar this is a big change for them. And has crippling weaknesses that prevent it from working reliably in the positions it's designed to attack. Explode's new, but as we've consistently pointed out its numbers are absolute trash. If you want to call that cool, go ahead, but don't be offended when alot of people turn around and go "yeah, that's garbage, give me something useful kthnxbye."
According to a post on FB Shang-Ji, Hai Dao, and Pangguling FTO are all Wildcards (max one per Fireteam). Sounds like Mo' Wang can have a Baggage buddy in a Duo to reload him!
Not sure which of the Pangguling is the FTO yet, so no guarantee you can link the TR, could be the 8 pointer, the EVO, or a new loadout for all we know.
Can't confirm or deny it yet, the FTO tag means it's only going to apply to one or two of the profiles, not all of them. For all we know it might only be the EVO bot allowed to wildcard or the Yuan Dun Heavy Pistol profile might even come back. There's no guarantees on anything there.
