If you're within LOF already, that's a single Discover+Shoot order. And I'd be very tempted to leave an Asura lurking around for AROs.
We could discuss the myriad wayss oss can frustrate and threaten tak I mean bs13 linked msrs with mimteism is a good start....
"By all means, go and use 3-4 orders to cross the board to engage my troops, just to have my TO Camo unit shoot yours in the back, because I'm not a moron and can plan how to cover weak spots in my defense"
TR HMGs.... Linked MLs..... TO NWI MSRs.... Play your own camo spam, a pair of minelayer Nagas is pretty cheap for what they put on the table. (BS12 BS dogged and minelayer) And this is only first turn. once you start sticking marksman on those linked REMs or get the SMGs into suppression fire. TAK is fighting uphill a fair bit at that point
That's 5.5 swc in 7 models [+whatever link you choose]. You can get around all of that with smoke, marker state spam or even just using your brain and cautious movement. On average, a dog warrior should be able to make short work of everything there except for the TR HMG (which dies to a spetznas) Wait, are you seriously expecting people not to have a plan B for when they Rambo someone across the table and they die? Do you not play with critical hits wherever you are from? If you use 3-4 orders to get across the table for something and it totally axes your game when they die to a critical hit (or a TO Camo MSR), you need to come up with a different plan. TAK isn't an army where you have Achilles or a TAG or something that you need to get across the table and it needs to get value: you have enough Camo tokens and war bands that you should always have a plan B and plan C. Also, since we're getting into snark responses, here's my quote: "Look at that SUSPICIOUSLY UNDEFENDED LANE, I'm going to send my irreplaceable Spetzna down it turn one instead of my disposable dog warrior." Worst case when this happens is that you fail your smoke dodge and turn into dog warrior mode. In practice, you can only Discover+shoot if the opponent leaves Camo tokens exposed on deployment, and your opponent clearly expected to lose them since he left them in line of sight from your deployment zone. Other than that, you are always going to be move+discover, then move+shoot to end them [which is 100% more orders than if they didn't have a marker state].
its a list of options not a "Take all these" And its not even all the tools, the Linked WIP15 NWI flashpusles are another you can add to the list. The point is anyone complaining that OSS has a poor reactive presence has no idea what they are talking about. For Example: Operations Subsection of the S.S.S. ────────────────────────────────────────────────── GROUP 1 10 NETROD . (0 | 4) DAKINI Tacbot MULTI Sniper Rifle / Electric Pulse. (1.5 | 21) DAKINI Tacbot HMG / Electric Pulse. (1 | 21) DAKINI Tacbot Combi Rifle / Electric Pulse. (0 | 13) DAKINI Tacbot Combi Rifle / Electric Pulse. (0 | 13) DAKINI Tacbot Combi Rifle / Electric Pulse. (0 | 13) DEVA (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle, Nanopulser / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 24) DEVA Lieutenant (Sensor) Combi Rifle, Nanopulser / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 24) APSARA (G: Jumper Level Z) Submachine Gun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 22) PROXY Mk.1 Engineer Combi Rifle, Nanopulser, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10) YUDBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3) PROXY Mk.5 (Forward Observer) 2 Submachine Guns, Nanopulser, E/M Grenades / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10) PROXY Mk.2 MULTI Sniper Rifle, Nanopulser / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 24) GROUP 2 6 DANAVAS Hacker (Hacking Device Plus. UPGRADE: Maestro) Combi Rifle + Pitcher / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 25) NETROD . (0 | 4) SHUKRA (Chain of Command) Boarding Shotgun, Nanopulser / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 25) ZAYIN Rebot HMG / Electric Pulse. (1 | 26) LAMEDH Rebot Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8) LAMEDH Rebot Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8) 5.5 SWC | 298 Points Open in Infinity Army
Just wanted to mention that I move into LOF of Camo tokens all the time, then waste my second Short Skill. Then I spend a fresh order to Discover + Shoot. It's not always the most Order efficient (it usually means I lose a short skill's worth of MOV) but it has the added bonus of forcing the enemy to run the risk of eating unopposed shots. If you flank the Camo token, and have a link bonus, sensor bonus, close-range bonus, etc., the enemy will often choose to reveal with an ARO rather than risk receiving the unopposed shot. It's a nice way to force your opponent's hand when there isn't a 100% chance you'll make the Discover attempt.
even without massive bonuses, A unit like an asura can sit in LOF o multiple tokens, Declare discover vs one of them, see if the others are game enough to fight it, then declare BS attack to obliterate the Token in question, or any other marker that tried to fight her. Say you move into LoF of 3 Tokens, Declare discover vs one, which reveals as an ojotnik scout, then another drops out of camo as a...Say Tank hunter AC to take the chance of droipping the asura. well a smart asura plkayer is gonna then pump 3-4 shots into that TH, because the ojotnik cannot drop her this turn. If hte tank hunter doesnt reveal, she obliterates the ojotnik, then pulverizes the TH next order
I don't know, I usually find that I try to discover with that second short skill. But does it do more amazing things than the equivalently costed MSV WIP15 deva + sensor bot + 2 sniffer bots? Asura is just way too expensive, very vulnerable to hacking, isolation, EM, and lacking in mobility. All she really has going for her over the Deva is armor 5 and the ability to eat 3 crits. If your opponent isn't doing Camo Spam, you're now down 3 orders that you could have used to push [the other tool in your toolbox] around. As to the HD+ profile: its worse at hacking than a Danavas, and its a hell of a lot more expensive. Yeah, its your only option if you want a template state heavy infantry, but other factions can do that for cheaper (Swiss, Has Tao, anathematizes, Ayyar). In short, I think that the Asura is very big gamble that you are hoping your opponent doesn't have a counter for. And those counters are many [hackers, EM, enemy high B shooting, hand to hand, loss of cheerleader order pool]. I just happen to play in an environment where players are good enough to have toolbox lists that can deal with a HI Rambo, and I want the extra points that I save by using the alternative to her main gear (deva) on more tools that can help me against a larger variety of opponents. But what happens when you try to do that and the Camo token in the building that you just got LoS ISN'T the Scout, but is actually the e-mauler and you now have to choose between lighting up the TH ML or dodging the Isolate+Imm [and LoL since you took the new hotness]? MSV3 is great in theory, but in practice I'd rather have 3 more orders on the MSV-2 to take things slow (or pushing buttons that let me win), and as a bonus not have to worry about Hacking and LoL. Although, now that I think about it: would it be worth it to pay a 40 point premium on a model to guarantee the ITS button is pushed? I don't know, it seems expensive... and that's directly how you win games. Maybe y'all just value the fact that you don't have to roll dice more than I do.
Sensor....Screening units, looking for the obvious mine placements (somewhere where they arent typically in cover is a good one, because a mine triggers from S0 not S2). And being aware of the table such that you arent engaging camo from within small template range..... you know playing the game, not expecting to be able just metaphorically roll your face across the keyboard just because you paid 70 pts for a unit and used it poorly while knowing the potential variables. As to 3 more order on msv3, your Asura alone generates 3 orders. and you say you pay 40 pts for a button push, you dont, you pay 40 pts for a button push, that hard coutners camoe, generates extra orders, is a high wip Lt, good datatracker and a solid gunfighter with a marker state potential
XD XD XD XD Yeah, I think Asura is underpowered for its price, but it's waaay better at Hacking than Danavas total effectiveness (of course, Danavas is more point efficient for just Hacking aspect). Danavas's only (minor) advantage is Maestro, which cannot win over Asura since it would put Asura into NWI and won't be able to kill her.
I was thinking that the fact that the Danavas also has a pitcher which the asura doesn't have makes her a better hacker, since she can get repeater coverage into places easier than the asura can. Asura is also susceptible to all the anti HI hacking spells which the Danavas doesn't care about.
Right, I'm just saying that if you do all of that (cautiously advancing and using sensor) you might as well be using the deva MSV profile and have a significant chunk of points you can spend on all kinds of other stuff (like a high tip LT, hacker, and extra orders that you can spend on anyone). You get one turn with the asura, since your opponent should be able to kill it after it gets into MULTIRifle range, and you have lost not just your MSV profile, but ALSO your gunfighter, data tracker, LT and hacker (and over a quarter of your points). If you're spending 3-4 orders to get across the table, then 3-4 orders to get back to your DZ and go prone, you are doing absolutely nothing else with your turn(other than killing 2-3 models, if you're lucky). As to the 40 PTS for a button push: I said I WOULD NOT spend that many points, and I value pushing buttons a lot more than I value killing Camo tokens.
Deploying that Pitcher with Danavas is not as easy as it sounds, given how vulnerable Danavas is to anything and everything. Not to mention that BS11 is hardly a clinch for placing it. As for "anti HI hacking spells", I suggest you take a look a bit more at that grimoire - you'll find they all can affect Hackers too, meaning Danavas gets it just as bad (worse, given lower BTS). Actually, there is one program that targets HI only, and that one gives Asura bonuses in Hacking, so y'know...
Yeah, that's right... Or throw down a mine or whatever else is helpful. The use a fresh Order for Discover-Shoot, just to increase the decision making stress for my opponent.
I am a fan of discover+discover. The chance to see the camo is quite high and then next order killing the camo marker is well worth it imho.
