Can't you just drop him directly on the hacker? The only ARO the hacker gets is hack transport aircraft apparantly. Even if he survives that Explode (I very much doubt they wrote Explode:LX with hack transport aircraft in mind since they didn't even write normal AD with that) he has to win his hacking after that in a FtF against a boarding shotgun. Unless you dropped him on a charontid you are probably just standing on a dead hacker.
Dropping on a Hacker works, but you need to bear in mind that most hacking armies will have more than one, and they're unlikely to be sitting under the same template. In addition, the odds of actually beating HTA are lower than half. Liu Xings need a bit of preparation before being dropped onto the board; specifically you need to reduce them to one or fewer HTA-capable Hackers, have some form of landing assistance (buffs,EVO) active and have at least one useful Drop Zone cleared in such a way that the enemy is unlikely to deal two wounds on landing if you want them to be reliable. Don't forget you can Coordinate Combat Jump to put multiple templates on a single model, prevent HTA deviating all your AD or threaten a slightly larger area in the event you have more than one Liu Xing.
Normal Hackers are probably the best target after Puppetactica. The ubiquitous Alguacile Hacker has 41.5% risk of dying to a DTW-style Explode with the assumed Explode L1 equivalent, compared to roughly 29% should the Alguacile Hacker be allowed to Dodge. The difference is that the Hacker of course will cause the Liu Xing to deviate more than otherwise leading to merely 67,5% landing rate instead of 75%, but the Hacker would cause this landing rate to suffer if you picked a different target so if the positioning otherwise allows it - why not land on them, right? (Note to self: Dice roller is giving wildly different results right now, and I'm getting too tired to use it, but I'm fairly certain these are sufficiently accurate now that I've adjusted for the way Hack Transport works (best simulated with -7 MOD))
I'd tend to disagree with that, I frequently use a guija and it does well, being basic also means being a few points cheaper and in a faction with kuang shi you're probably looking at another order you can funnel into it (say for that last order suppression fire) or a better HI to pair it with, the only thing I'd really quibble about is the usefulness of the CC but even then I've CC'd units with a guija
YJ is as amazing as ever. Guilang, Tigers, Monks, Daofei, Rui Shi/Lu Duan, and the plethora of other amazing HI choices are all top tier units, even compared to new stuff. With the new IA stuff around the corner it's only going to get even better.
For anyone interested. I have an Excel file with TAG comparisons. https://drive.google.com/open?id=1PPTZDjb8108SIukRHKp1ehFABkMlbjaG
It'sI part of the question but not so much that if that was your only clarification I would expect a no answer. But how language is used is funny like that. Anyway, I guess it might be a playstyle or meta thing but in our area it can often be tough to find a good drop point, itsx might help abit but often people cover their sectors with at least a rifle or pistol. And best bits of board edge are always covered until late game. This means either you drop further back and spend orders moving forward, but means youre basically coming from the front and lose the unique attack vector that ad offers. I can see explode and the 2w allowing the Liu xing to drop into areas where there is only 1 guard. Which for me, significantly increases the drop options. So it's ability to kill said guard is really secondary. As that can be done with a follow up shoot. But forcing the guard to either hope to tank it to try take a shot (which wont even kill the Liu, making it even less desirable) or dodge allowing an unmolested drop. I'd say I probably see normal hackers in 1/3 of my games and multiple in basically none. So HTA also doesn't seem the big of a deal.
@CabalTrainee since HTA happens outside of the normal ARO sequence I don't think it's clear that dropping in front of a hacker means they can't just shoot you.
@Hecaton Well i let the rules forum fight that one out. (At least ijw thinks you can't do anything else) I'm pretty sure you've seen the discussion. CB can't be bothered i guess. I usually just play it how my opponents likes it best. (I'm nice like that) Still the Liu Xing can do the same my ragik usually does and tank one shot while coming down before shooting people in the face. Well arguably the ragik is still better for it because dogged is way cheaper and equally as good as NWI (At least if you burn through your AD troopers as fast as me)
Okay, so here's a slightly extended answer: I have learned the hard way with ITSX so far, which admittedly is limited, that finding a good spot to drop with an AD3+ trooper is not hard. It's difficult to cover all angles. I have not so far seen this where the drop target has been an actual trooper, but rather when the drop target has been to avoid actual troopers. What complicates it with the Liu Xing is there's one more layer: hackers and their REMote buddies. They massively limit where it's comfortable or feasible to drop a Liu Xing. I can't with certainty say where a I'd actually stick a Liu Xing until I've played with it, nor where someone would stick one when playing against me because someone wanting to use the aggressive landing will be looking for situations which has never been an issue before. All I can say is that finding someone to stab with a Ninja without having the Ninja die from unopposed AROs has always been kind of hard around here, and considering my "success" with Ninja KHD my gold nugget of learning lately has been that maybe that device were 3 points better not spent at all. So I'm not optimistic about finding a spot where a Hackable AD4 trooper can land with the only troopers able to draw LOF are the troopers within 3,75cm of the trooper. But all things considered, our boards are usually such that there's a bridge or a building roof or similar just outside the DZ where you can use ITSX fully and stick down a Liu Xing in relative safety so that the only concern would be if there's repeaters nearby. I agree that use of normal hackers is fairly low in our meta as well, but I was never a fan of a Tiger's chances and the Liu Xing has the same PH, so... I might still walk it on.
And as has frequently been brought up, now replace the Guijia with any other of our good HI options and watch your productivity and order count skyrocket up and your risk factor drop off. That's what puts it below the curve. It doesn't compete inhouse with other options and that's largely due to being a TAG and overcosted. Put the Guijia's statline and rules on a Su-Jian like HI and it still wouldn't be worth 88pts. I would like to echo that. I played Firefight last night, my best two drop points which I ended up using with a pair of Tigers were both covered by remote Repeater bubbles. Between 2 Ikadrons, KISS and Bit, and a Flashpulse drone, there's not alot of places to actually drop without first killing any hackers that can attack the HI.
It's probable that the Hack transport aircraft program will get bypassed. Liu-xing is a HI so it can benefit from Faery dust. and acording to Hack Transpot aircraft... and due to being a hacking F2F roll, firewall will probably be applied. So a F2F -9 WP roll will probably be a long shot against almost any hacker. So if we add that to the explode Lx and the second wound, and the fact that can only be prey of plasma, fire and DA, Liu-Xing might be one of the best AD troopers in terms of landing capacity. Of course in exchange, it becomes vulnerable to repeater zones and multi-hacker lists. I think @Alphz is right and we might need to think of the liuxing as a oniwaban. Even if you have problems narrowing down the enemy's LT you can put 2 liuxings in your list and narrow down the options. A lot of sectorials are easy to read, and even if they have a 2W Lt, you will deploy AP hell over him, an assault hacker with oblivion or even if they have a CoC you can take it out too. I think it's huge as an addition to Yujing. Regarding the Guijia, I consider it currently the Worse vanilla S7 TAG. Although It has Lt option, that's not entirely positive due to the 3 SWCs and the need to pay a pheasant toll. Too much overcost. It also lacks any kind of interesting alternative loadout option, like a Heavy grenade launcher, a heavy shotgun, mine dispenser... I hope 3rd offensive changes some of this points and can give the Guijia a little boost, because I really love the model
@Mc_Clane FWIW, fairy dust won't have any affect on hacking the drop because it only has any effect vs attacks. Hack transport aircraft isn't an attack.
It's still notable that Fairy Dust can be applied before the drop, giving Hackers a harder time with other programs. Good catch on that, Mc_Clane. Now I've actually read the rule, HTA is a lot weaker then I have been led to believe. WIP-6 means Fusiliers will be succeeding on 6s and most non-specialist Hackers will be using 7s against an EVO- aided 15. I might even consider a drop against multiple Line Troop Hackers because their odds will be awful.
@Mc_Clane I think they should just make the Guijia pilot an Engineer. Would definitely make it unique among TAGs, and Yu Jing is supposed to be the nation where technical knowledge is the most widespread.
I'm not sure the Liu Xing is very good against TAGs, Anathema, or other very difficult and expensive targets. Less Oniwaban more Ninja.
Yeah it doesn't strike me as the tough nut cracker that the Oniwaban was. An Oniwaban was basically a delete button if you got it to work. The Liu Xing looks more like it prefers soft targets. Yes, it returns some alpha strike capabilities that YJ lost but it's not an Oniwaban replacement.
It's like an Oniwaban in that it may change the way your enemy deploys and plays, even when it isn't there. While an Oniwaban was a giant risk to TAGs and other expensive order sinks while also presenting credible threats to light targets, the Liu Xing could easily become a menace to the enemy's support and command if these elements are left unprotected- or Heavies if you actually took the AHD. Yu Jing has always had top tier AD with the Tiger, but the Liu Xing will need even more effort to keep out and trades the vulnerabilities of Tigers and Oniwaban- MSV and Mines- for Hackable and a some non-visual defense. Because of this, the enemy will need to cover every section of their DZ with serious threats or leave windows for a potential Liu Xing right amongst their most vulnerable pieces.
