really this would apply to any low/poor vis zones but i think it would potentially happen with nimbus the most. so heres a situation: lets say i have a guy throw some nimbus plus down at the corner of a building where i wanna kill some guys then i walk to the edge, and use a template weapon to fire at said units. if they dodge, they take a -6 penalty because the poor visibility rules explicitly state they get the mod if they change facing (legal as long as i am in zone of control) do they 1: take only a -3 mod to the ph roll, since change facing doesn't require LOF and poor vis states that it doesn't affect things that don't require LOF 2: take a -9 to the roll, because of the base mod from change facing, plus the -6 because change facing explicitly states it takes all the same modifiers as dodge rolls
If they are in the zone, it will stack. If the shot is simply going through the zone, Change Facing will be unaffected because it's not a Skill that requires LoF.
wait what? why would it stack if they are in the zone but not if the template only passes through the zone? are you saying the line from poor vis: "Consequently, any Skill, Special Skill or piece of Equipment whose LoF makes contact with a Poor Visibility Zone suffers the -6 MOD." is making them have a penalty while they are in the zone?
The faq says nothing about change facing. Are you saying change facing acts like a dodge if its inside the low vis zone but not if the template is just passing through the zone? Because that is not at all consistent.
Hes asking why your statement implies that this, Any Dodge which LoF to the enemy trooper passes into/out/through a Low/Poor Visibility Zone suffers the penalty. Does not apply to Change facing, which is a dodge. Note there is no mentioned requirement that the "skill" required LOF, Dodge itself does not even require LOF under particular circumstances
But the Change Facing skill itself says in its last bullet point: "Any rules, Traits, Special Skills, etc. that would apply a MOD to a Dodge attempt also apply to this Common Skill." Edit: Ah, now I see what you are talking about.
Sure but in situations where there is no LOF between the target and attacker then you can't say that LOF passes through a Low Vis/Poor Vis zone. So in those situations the FAQ would not apply. Note that Change Facing always suffers the -3 MOD for getting hit by a template from out of LOF (which is why this MOD does not stack with the -3 Change Facing MOD: they're functionally the same MOD), which implies that LOF never counts as existing between a Trooper who declares Change Facing and the attacker.
i think its bizarre he is saying it applies when they are in the zone but not when the template goes through the zone. i could see how it could apply for both instances, or how it could not apply for both instances, but not how it would apply for one but not the other.
Because the MOD applies for two reasons: First if you are in such a zone Second if LOF passes through such a zone @ijw argument is that since change facing is never reliant on LOF point two does not apply.
But the mod doesnt apply if you are just in the zone. It applies if skills are equipment are used whose LoF pass through the zone. Change facing doesnt have LoF, so it wouldnt trigger the mod just because you use it while in the zone
First effect: Any Skill, Special Skill or piece of Equipment that requires LoF and is declared from, into or through a Poor Visibility Zone suffers a -6 MOD to the relevant Attribute in the required Roll. I don't like IJW's argument, but I understand where it's coming from. However, I do think that when Alice shoot Bob with a HRL through a Poor Vis Zone and hits Charlie (who doesn't have LOF to Alice) then Bob suffers a -6 MOD to Dodges and Charlie only suffers a -3 MOD (because there is no LOF between Alice and Charlie so you can't say that "LoF to the enemy trooper passes into/out/through a Low/Poor Visibility Zone."
Wait what? Why are you bolding the word into but not the word through? If you say the penalty applies to guys being in it because of this rule, then shooting a direct template weapon at a guy i have LoF to through the zone should impose the penalty the same as if i was shooting the template into the zone at someone standing there. Im having a hard time understanding why ijw would say the penalty applies in one case but not the other, seeing as how the two cases are both mentioned in both sections of poor vis
This doesn't apply, because it's based on LoF, and therefore won't apply to Change Facing: Any Dodge which LoF to the enemy trooper passes into/out/through a Low/Poor Visibility Zone suffers the penalty. This applies, because it says that it's applied even if there isn't LoF. Any Dodge declared inside a Low/Poor Visibility Zone suffers the negative MOD, even in Close Combat or if the Dodge didn’t involve LoF. My emphasis in both cases. To paraphrase, Low and Poor Visibility MODs apply if LoF is involved and that LoF intersects the zone, or if the trooper is physically in the zone.
Awesome! Thanks for clearing it up. Its some pretty bizarre game behavior but it is what it is right? I like the flavor of, "if i look at the guy trying to roast me with a flamer i will he less likely to dodge it because of the hazy air around him, so i should just close my eyes and hope for the best!"
I wasn't a big fan of the FAQ due to the odd sequence of Low/Poor/Zero and various MODs, but I like to think of it as the Low or Poor Visibility Zone physically obstructing the trooper's movements while they're within the zone. It's harder for Nimbus, but for terrain it can easily represent getting caught on branches etc.
