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Feeling Outclassed by Power Creep

Discussion in 'Yu Jing' started by fenren, Nov 2, 2018.

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Is Yu Jing Currently Under-powered ?

Poll closed Nov 12, 2018.
  1. Yeah, it's rough out there for a dragon...

    21 vote(s)
    23.9%
  2. No way, Yu Jing is full of great troops!

    67 vote(s)
    76.1%
  1. Mruczyslaw

    Mruczyslaw AROnaut

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    As for missing variety - yes, because faction wasnt updated since... HS?
    This can be told about every old faction. Everything was payed, everything is done. Look at Tohaa forum;D

    But soon we will have new toys from IA, faction will be refreshed.
     
  2. Mc_Clane

    Mc_Clane Zhànzhēng bùzhǎng
    Warcor

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    No, Yujing has received changes since Human sphere N3. Miranda ashcroft hunting party, regular mercs, sforza regular and of course the uprising clipping

    The problem on Yujing is that they've left us on life support only. Only the basic core of our faction as vanilla and the everlasting aspirant to a sectorial, the ISS. The sectorial who brings and ties along all that a significant amount of Yujing players don't love about their faction. (Although it also has some of things that are cool and awesome, like kuangshis, hsien, su-jian...) And of course, ISS has a... peculiar play-style that doesn't fit all the players.

    If Liuxing, or zencha were at the army from the uprising... or vanilla yujing were able to access temporary mercenary reinforcements... mayby, just maybe, the situation would have been less harmful and could have brought different and interesting play-style for one season.

    Yujing problem right now is the retraction of their force while a lot o new things arise from It's ashes. This retraction over shadows it's cool or competent profiles and weakens it's potential. Or if someone want's to argue about that, at least it weakens the image of the faction.
     
  3. Mruczyslaw

    Mruczyslaw AROnaut

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    Thats ISS not YJ. And in any case that doesnt matter because why field ashcroft or her hunting party, they suck. No gameplay changes there.
    ISS has its 9 regular orders for 53 points. Other than that You can field anything and it works. Not much to say about it;)
     
  4. -Ghost-

    -Ghost- Shalashaska

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    I disagree that Yu Jing is a basic faction. It's just stretched very thin since it has only one Sectorial. The units inside are still very good. Just seems like lists can be very one dimensional since we cling to what we know that works great. With IA I think that void that we are feeling will be taken care of.

    In a vanilla list, a Kanren, Guilang, Dao Fei, Zhēncha will be a solid midline.

    Just gotta wait and see the rest of the profiles for IA at the end of the month.

    Hoping Hulang Shocktroopers have Full Auto Lvl2 or something neat.
     
  5. Fire@Will

    Fire@Will Well-Known Member

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    As a luxury item manufacturer, I reckon CB are well aware of the dangers of market saturation. Geeks still need to eat, and most of us have limited budgets (and probably even more constrained time), so why flood us with more models than we can buy or paint? Tempting us with JSA (as was the plan) won't work as effectively without holding back IA. Granted it irritates (goddamn capitalism), but only backfires if customer attrition rate is higher than usual. And, y'all are still here...

    Now, having played JSA a while, I'm about ready (as well as my bank balance) to be tempted again with new YJ shiny toys.
     
  6. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    We're having a discussion about game balance here. Your point you're literally making is "well, it's ok because nobody I know can play decently therefore being garbage is good enough." please understand why bringing that point to the discussion isn't particularly valuable to the discussion.

    You enjoy playing with the Guijia, great, good for you. It still sucks and is badly in need of fixing, that's the real topic of discussion. Pretending it's ok because "Some of us play games badly" as you put it isn't doing anybody any favours here. The Guijia is garbage and needs fixing, end of discussion.

    6-4 movement is fantastic on a model that can leverage it, which is the point you're missing pretty badly. A Rui Shi is great, and can make use of the 6-4 movement because it's not overly expensive and you can shove it up the table early without fear of shit like somebody hacking it, turning it around and murdering your dudes with it. You can also afford to push that movement around without fear of shit like invisible missile launchers popping up and deleting nearly 1/3 of your army off the table with one lucky hit. I would like to remind everyone that Noctifiers are real, they're huge assholes, and you'll be seeing a tonne more of them next year.

    6-4 movement on the Guijia is wasted for the majority of the game because it spends most of the game confined to the deployment zone trying not to get possessed or whacked by surprise attacks or dog piled by models that can kill it. The Guijia is fat, it's easier to get shots on it around terrain, and your opponent can afford to sink orders into downing it because it's fucking expensive and killing it is killing a huge chunk of your available fighting forces.

    And don't try to pretend I don't have terrain suitable for TAGs sizewise, you've seen the tables I play on I've posted them in the YJ forums.

    If the Guijia was 65pts and couldn't be possessed, you could actually put that 6-4 movement to work aggressively to control the table much like a Su Jian can go screaming up the table and apply a huge amount of pressure. At 88pts and being a liability, you can't actually make serious use out of it which is why extra speed is such a null factor when considering the Guijia.

    To put it another way you're basically trying to argue about how OP a theoretical BS19 model is because BS19 is goddamn awesome on paper which it is. However, I'm pointing out that the BS19 model is only armed with a pistol, which heavily limits how useful that BS19 actually is in reality. The stats in a vacuum don't decide how useful they are, or even how effective those stats are.

    As I brought up, because the Yan Huo is so much cheaper than a Guijia you literally have 5 extra orders available. It's cheaper, you get a better gun, costs less SWC and you get more orders just bringing a Yan Huo and the Kuang Shi boat. Because the Yan Huo is cheaper, and doesn't get possessed, you can also afford to play more aggressively with it in the early stage of the game too, it doesn't need to sit a million miles back trying not to get pitchered and stolen.
     
    #46 Triumph, Nov 3, 2018
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2018
    ambisinister likes this.
  7. Kallas

    Kallas Vincible

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    Wow. That is an incredibly dumb statement.
     
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  8. -Ghost-

    -Ghost- Shalashaska

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    Yeah unless that was sarcasm (my meter didn't go off) no one had ever thought vanilla Yu Jing was OP.
     
    Kallas likes this.
  9. Alphz

    Alphz Kuang Shi Vet. Retired.

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    I think a few armchair generals here need to take a step back. Your only one of many metas and infinity is a game that varies a lot depending on terrain and player make up. Lets tone back on the absolute statements (FACT!) and try have a conversation.


    Its not a great reason, but yeah its probably a contributing factor. Uprising was good for JSA as a sectorial as well. I'm glad they didn't try leverage in more japanese style troops into yu jing, and I understand completely that the JSA aesthetic is very appealing to a lot of gamers.

    Having IA several months after that split is a dubious decision. But plenty of people played a JSA light or non JSA yu jing before uprising and can't attest that the faction is very much playable. Variety is lacking but I think the two teased profiles already show some variety coming up!
     
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  10. ObviousGray

    ObviousGray Frenzied Mushroom

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    That moment when you tried sarcasm and had to explain that was a tried sarcasm. :P
     
  11. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    I miss Comic Sans so much...
     
  12. Zewrath

    Zewrath Elitist Jerk

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    I don’t see any convincing argument as why YJ should be UP in any way shape or form, especially ISS. ISS is a god tier faction when it comes to button pushing ITS missions, in fact I think they’re hidden OP in that specific sub group of missions.

    Also, lol@ some of these things being said in this thread. Tigers being “expensive” and what not. Seriously you guys let’s not become the new PanO sub forum. Yes Uprising sucked. Yes Psychocrane was even worse but let’s not pretend that it effected the competitive power of ISS one bit. YJ Vanilla? Well, they got more monotonous to play when there’s so much stuff gone but that’s about it.
     
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  13. -Ghost-

    -Ghost- Shalashaska

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    I don't consider myself an armchair general, but I will admit I haven't played a lot of competitive Infinity. My tiny meta is fun. I know my opinion won't hold a lot of weight, but I've had my fair share of experiences in N2 and early N3 (we got burned out because of ITS).

    I have but only one like to give...
     
  14. SpectralOwl

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    Perhaps I didn't make myself clear enough above. Garbage isn't good enough, it's that the Guijia is extremely forgiving of bad dice, bad positioning and bad deployment, or an enemy good enough to force you into those. Some low-skill-floor options are pretty damn important for a game with a learning curve like Infinity's, and the only bloat on the Guijia beyond other similar TAGs is its CC. I'm not asking for you to play it or say it's "god op", just saying that it has a niche in gameplay. It's certainly a bad option for the top tables at Interplanetario where apparently point/murder ratios are king, and I sure as heck wouldn't turn down a buff, but it is not outclassed by other options by any stretch of the imagination.

    On the original topic of feeling outclassed, I actually switched to Nomads for a while after Uprising. Gotta say, investing 30pts in Hacking infrastructure and running into unhackable list after unhackable list felt like I was outclassed a lot more than when I was fielding HI.
     
  15. Fire@Will

    Fire@Will Well-Known Member

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    That's not an attempt to justify the decision as a favourable one for us, or one that we want to hear - but, I do appreciate the sectorial approach to faction switching every 2 months, or incessant model creep across the board - feels like I can get my teeth into something new and interesting, but not have to start from scratch.

    That said, CB do need to make me want to extend my collection - force the storyline to continue apace with one faction, whilst also keeping me waiting for another - sadly, I guess this does inevitably entail a bit of the old 'new shiny syndrome', which Yu Jing have suffered for. I can see valid criticisism of CB for forcing my attention onto JSA, however I've enjoyed the experience (which I think counts for a lot with any leisure business).
     
  16. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    That's exactly what I am complaining about, and have been since Uprising.

    YJ went from solidly competitive to significantly below average.
     
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  17. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    Doing a drive-by on this conversation: No. Absolutely not. Since Possessed is a thing, TAGs are very *un*forgiving of bad dice. And the Su Jian is more forgiving of, say a random T2 crit.

    And other people haven't, so it seems like CB being greedy/duplicitous.
     
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  18. Fire@Will

    Fire@Will Well-Known Member

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    There is something coercive about how the split forced one into playing JSA, which felt hard to swallow at the time. How tempting were the new JSA models when they came out for those with substantial collections pre-uprising? Did you play with the new faction?
     
  19. Fire@Will

    Fire@Will Well-Known Member

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    Or, indeed, capitalist exploiters...
     
  20. Kallas

    Kallas Vincible

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    I honestly would have liked to run some of the new JSA stuff, but the way that CB handled Uprising has meant that I have no desire to touch any of the new JSA stuff: I simply do not condone that kind of shit approach, and cannot bear to hand them any money for it. Similarly, I'm not going to be giving them any money for IA, unless it actually helps YJ not be a boring ass faction to play.
     
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