If you want to go by compete RAW, yes. If you want to be sensible, Army Builder allows you to take them, and will mark the list as ITS legal, but there's still nothing giving you permission to form a Fireteam Duo with them.
We're not discussing AVA, we're discussing Fireteams. With the definitive charts for Fireteams being the page on the wiki.
Did you notice the difference between the fireteam formation rules and the sectorial lists? 1, The sectorial lists are organized as “These models can be in the sectorial.” And then other models have rules that say “I can be in the various sectorials, too.” That allows the model without it being in the sectorial list. 2. Fireteam Duo has the requirement “ The trooper possessing this Special Skill must belong to a Sectorial Army List, or have a Special Skill, piece of Equipment or Hacking Program that allows its use. That’s why the model can’t form the fireteam when it’s not on the list.
When I'm running a tournament, since the players MUST use the army creator and it's the most accesible thing. I'm letting them use it. No one should have to find some obscure place, sorry but wiki still kinda is, especially to newbs. Either fix it in the army builder or come out with a new sectoral list. As I said, as of now it's showing CSU can't even be in the army according the the recent PDF. Since the army creator is Official, and players MUST make their list from that, that's what I'm going with.
Hence why I've said several times that a link to the List if Fireteams Wiki page (the official source of these rules that MUST be used) should be added to the profile of every trooper capable of forming any kind of Fireteam. Also LOL at calling the wiki that the Army Builder hyperlinks to obscure.
@Space Ranger There's no consistence to it and if you are not swayed by the arguments presented (which I also think are silly) then you simply have to accept how it is and move on. Unfortunately with the amount of rules we get, more and more stuff seems to be coming off at the seams.
I'm trying to deal with very new people and they are already overwhelmed by the amount of rules and skills. And then tell them to look at the Wiki?! They shouldn't have to look up a 3rd place for rules!
The could make it really simple tbh. Put a line at the top of this wiki page saying that if it doesn't appear on this page, it can't be formed. Add a note in Army saying to check that page for the full Fireteam creation rules, have it hotlink to the wiki page like skills and equipment do.
Those profiles never should have been given to NCA and ISS in the first place, if they can't use them that is. TBH I wouldn't care if my opponent was using a duo of CSU, it feels so inconsequential as is.
Agreed, the presentation of Fireteam options requires an overhaul Even copying IJW's excellent summary at the start of this thread onto the Wiki would be a great first step.
A problem with this clear logic is that the rules are not kept up to date with the releases. The rules regarding fireteam creation predates the CSU profiles and given how CB releases new or updated profiles we have already established that the piblished lists do not in fact supersede newer information. Hence the natural assumption is that CSU can form Duo until such a time the rules are updated to definitely show that a Duo can't be formed
I'm feeling super dense right now but can anyone point me to where in the rules can i actually find this? Can't find it in either books or wiki (only in this thread).
I believe Ian's wording is a clarification of this: http://infinitythewiki.com/en/Common_Requirements A Fireteam can only be composed of those troopers where it is indicated that they are able to compose Fireteams.
But all fireteams except Duo and Triad have the following bullet point(s): Only those units specified on their Sectorial Army List can compose a Fireteam: Core. (http://infinitythewiki.com/en/Fireteam:_Core) Only those units specified on their Sectorial Army List can compose a Fireteam: Enomotarchos. (http://infinitythewiki.com/en/Fireteam:_Enomotarchos) Only those units specified on their Sectorial Army List can compose a Fireteam: Haris. (http://infinitythewiki.com/en/Fireteam:_Haris) Fireteam: Duo lists this requirements: In addition to the Fireteam Common Requirements, a Fireteam: Duo has to fulfill the following specific Requirements: A Fireteam: Duo must be composed of a maximum of two troopers. Both members of the Fireteam: Duo must belong to the same unit, or those combinations of units indicated on their Sectorial Army List. One of the members must have the Special Skill Fireteam: Duo. My understanding has been that as long as you have the Fireteam:Duo skill, team up the same unit and are using a Sectorial Army List you are good to go. Possessing the skill Fireteam:Duo indicated for me that this trooper is able to compose fireteams. Might be that CSUs in NeoTerra are a corner case here, since apparently you can't even field them in ISS despite being availabe in Infinity Army...
It just seems rather confusing that in the fireteam rules you can find this for all fireteams except in duo(+triad). It is specifically pointed out in Haris: http://infinitythewiki.com/en/Fireteam:_Haris "In addition to the Fireteam Common Requirements, a Fireteam: Haris has to fulfill the following specific Requirements: Only those units specified on their Sectorial Army List can compose a Fireteam: Haris." And in Core: http://infinitythewiki.com/en/Fireteam:_Core "In addition to the Fireteam Common Requirements, a Fireteam: Core has to fulfill the following specific Requirements: Only those units specified on their Sectorial Army List can compose a Fireteam: Core" With the Duo skill however this bullet point is specifically missing from the list of additional requirements. http://infinitythewiki.com/en/Fireteam:_Duo "In addition to the Fireteam Common Requirements, a Fireteam: Duo has to fulfill the following specific Requirements: A Fireteam: Duo must be composed of a maximum of two troopers. Both members of the Fireteam: Duo must belong to the same unit, or those combinations of units indicated on their Sectorial Army List. One of the members must have the Special Skill Fireteam: Duo." So if the need for fireteams to be part of the sectorial list is already in the common requirements those bulletpoints from Haris and Core would be completely superfluous and useless bloat. Also triad would break. If the common requirements force you to be on that list you could not form a single triad team. If it is not in the common requirements i actually can't see a logical way to read the rules the way they are supposed to be. If Duo, which specifically does not have that bullet point, is not meant to be an exception (as triad) from all the other fireteams it should at least be mentioned in an FAQ. Right now i can't see anyone coming to the current reading of the rules without visiting the forum. Which is a problem. There is no way i can tell people the summary on the forum says so... @ijw could i ask you to at least suggest an FAQ clarifiying this Duo thing to CB? Or should i post this again in a rules question thread and hope @HellLois finds it so we can get a solved thread?
That doesn't override the general requirement of: A Fireteam can only be composed of those troopers where it is indicated that they are able to compose Fireteams. Ian has clarified that this is where things are indicated: http://infinitythewiki.com/en/List_of_Fireteams Yes it's not very clear, thankyou for being the umpteenth person to point that out in this thread, it's almost as if we need a stickied topic in the rules forum to lay things out while we wait for CB to approve a change to the wording of several rules.
If that sentence forces you to be on a linked team list triad teams are impossible. Tohaa don't even have a list and still need the "common requirements."
