To be honest we are just discussing for the sake of it, it's like a trench war where everybody has already stated their opinion and we are just going around in circles. I don't really hate Zencha, but I feel it's bad marketing announcing IA as "the HI sectorial" and then resorting to these tricks with fake HIs being labeled as HI just so you have the aforementioned "HI sectorial" that's not really an HI sectorial.
You mean all the non hackable, non IMM-2 by EM, cheaper skirmishers? It is not bad per se (not good neither), it's just not an HI or not the HI YJ players were sold and hyped for IA since the beggining of time. As a secondary problem, it doesn't offer anything Yu Jing can't do already, which also kinda begs the question about why we had to lose the Japanese to "open design space". Same goes for the Liu Xing, although maybe you could argue durability is the Liu Xing shtick.
Because those other Skirmishers pay for NWI and are always Hackable, not to mention IMM-2 by E/M weaponry? :) I play Dasyu. Trust me, those mines are gonna be a big deal.
It IS good. It's the only ARM3 skirmisher outside of the Daofei, it's above avg BS, above avg PH, has a great toolkit, and literally it's only downside when comparing to other skirmishers is being hackable (which any skirmisher who is also a hacker will be too) and being more affected by EM. It's cheaper than all other skirmishers with a psuedo second wound. It's more manueverable than most skirmishers (save maybe dart who can't be a specialist). The Zhencha is amazong if you stop looking at what your preconceived notions of what it should have been and just look at what it is.
That's, like, your opinion, man. I think you are severely overestimating the importance of ARM in this game, and those "above average" stats you talk about are not really so above average (in fact, they are average)... the only real advantage I see it's the Climbing+ By the way, cheaper than what, the Dasyu? The guy with TO camo? Do I really have to spell why TO is miles better than normal Camo?
When did I say the Zhencha was better than a Dasyu? And the point is rather moot because Dasyu aren't in YJ.
You said he is cheaper than other skirmishers with NWI, didn't you? I'm telling you Dasyu pays for TO camo while being in the same price band. But now your own point is moot?
My point is the Zhencha is comparable to top teir skirmishers, but it seems that people can't get over the fact that they assumed it was going to be 2w. Yes? I don't see how you saying a Dasyu has TO camo and should be more expensive has any bearing on that?
Please tell me what other skirmishers with NWI there are and who are more expensive than the Zencha. Wanna compare to Dart? Because that's gonna be hilarious. Zencha is only comparable to top tier skirmishers if you look at its price, but not at its utility. Climbing+ or TO? I know what I would choose? And if we compare to Dart it gets better. And again, all those skirmishers you compare Zencha to are better than the Zencha WITHOUT TAKING INTO ACCOUNT HACKING VULNERABILITY (loved that "but if the other skirmisher takes a HD it is hacking vulnerable too!" argument, btw)
Dart isn't a specialist. That's a big downside right there. Clibing plus gives you greater mobility than TO camo as it allows you to climb without breaking your marker state. TO camo is great, sure, but I'll generally take more survivability (arm 6 in cover) and climbing plus over TO camo on a mobile specialist. There aren't many skirmishers with NWI, that's kinda the point. The fact that the Zhencha has it puts it in an elite group of skirmishers right off the bat. And it's one of the least expensive ones that does, and is a specialist, and can threaten a mutltitude of target types, and has a better chance to survive hits than anything other than a daofei (which is nearly double the cost and even more vulnerable to hacking as a specialist).
Well, the devil is going to be in the detail of the rework. Just removing the option to have Hospitaller Knights link with Magisters likely removed the only truly "top tier" build Military Orders was capable of. And, seriously, there has been SO MUCH WHINING about the "need" to include anything other than HI in lists for Invincible Army. So, no, you don't get to say "MO can do HI + REMs" and call that an all HI force when your fellows amongst the Yu Jing player base have been openly rejecting that definition for months. I mean, in your own words: Maybe try to be slightly more consistent in your own argument. Yeah, dude, have you listened to a single thing I've posted in this section for the forum for the last year? I've been crying from the mountaintops that Yu Jing should have gotten Invincible Army BEFORE Uprising. And am also on the record arguing that they should be picking up their third sectorial next year (rather than only just getting their second "back"). It IS shitty that Yu Jing have gotten the shaft like this. But, hey, at least you're not playing Tohaa right?
No, because it gets no advantage from its HI classification apart from I guess 2 inches of second move. Though even that's not a big deal in the post yadu world.
I'm not going to crucify IA until I see the whole sectorial (like any rational person would). However the previews aren't what I call a best foot forward look. We got a look at a pseudo HI skirmisher with the Zhencha and a durable HI drop unit (I don't have a lot of problems with the Liu Xing unless Explosion Lvl X is very underwhelming). So there reception was lukewarm because they didn't really give us anything splashy, really cool, or even an skill or equipment hint (which we didn't get with Explosion Lvl X). I think showing off the Mowang and/or Daoying might of given us a better glimpse of what IA can do instead of these middle ground units.
Well if the formula meme is correct then the HI designation applies to the unit as a whole as it likely increases the cost of camo and infiltration. How much cheaper would the zhencha have been as just a MI and no other changes?
If I didn’t have my own quirks to keep from having every army, I’d be all over IA, both because of and in spite of this thread.
