Invincible Army post mortem

Okey why i'm excited with Zencha: that motherfucker is cheap, YES CHEAP. We had two options, just a terracota type vanilla HI with combi plus camo or a guy with option to do things but expensive as fuck for a skirmisher ( like a daofei 2.0). Having SHIP with no bioinmunity is sad yes, but also give us a mid point unit. A usful equiped guy without paying a lot of points. We don't know IA army yet but i feel that it won't have a strong mid map control via skirmishers anyway. Insted the Zencha can stay hide with climing plus and go for the button after the heavy link clean a bit. Apart this dude can make worth (more in vanilla thats true) the torpedo tactic. Camo+ shotgun/submachine + not painfull as fuck to lose can allow you to run from midfield to enemy deploy zone, select a link or a bunch of cheerleaders and start the template game.


If i can later i want to speak about the Liu Xiu to

Ty

 

Aside from the Daofei AHD, there isn't one that I know of.

But that's the thing. Vanilla YJ has a camo+infiltrating specialist that cannot be stopped by mines. Why doesn't the Invincible Army?!?

 

Yeah. I really wanted some ZOMG teasers for Invincible Army, and what we got was ... very much not what people were expecting, or had been led to believe.

I'd probably be down to just bitching about the lack of Tigers and Daofei, yes.

Actually, no. I'd still be bitching about the Liu Xing being a poorly-differentiated Tiger with more vulnerabilities (no Mimetism and Hackable). I'm not even sure how I'd use the Liu Xing.

Yes, it's really fucking frustrating to see a company whose product you used to love just fuck it up in Uprising and again here. Uprising at least had new models that made me want to play JSA.

So far, 3rd Offensive is making me want to not play Yu Jing anymore.

 

Thanks for that - it's actually a good tip for playing kuang shi. Glad it's ijw contradicting himself that's got us confused and not just the two of us squabbling over rules interpretation.

 

Im in the same boat, think I'm gonna pass on IA starter and maybe play some PanO or Aleph. It's like 35 € for IA starter and around 65 € for the MO box, so not much of a difference

 

Perhaps because there's a limit to do with order efficiency? Otherwise, maybe they'd remove that profile?

 

Someone somewhere said they knew the anchor as a military symbol was common for combat engineer and sapper regiments and that a CB staff member congratulated them on the observation on the spanish forums or something to that effect. I'm expecting them to be just that: engineering specialists you might be able to throw into the main link teams and the occasional support/heavy-weaponry. Their dossier showed them having D-charges and, of all things, a multisniper. It's complete speculation which I know I probably shouldn't do, but I kinda hope they have a sapper+MULTI-sniper option. The only comparable unit would be the Tohaa sapper sniper 'cause you can give him a pokemon, but pretty sure no other sapper sniper has multiple wounds. Someone else postulated they would be able to form the special fireteam with the pangguling remotes so you could have an engineer and two TR-combi sentry bots. Either of those options sound awesome, but we'll have to wait and see next month.

 

I actually quite like the Liu Xing. He doesn't replace the tiger, but I see him as a specialized supplement or alternative. The tiger's kinda our general-purpose AD. He can kinda do everything whether it's press buttons, blast people in the back, or get in a gunfight because BS13, mimetism, and a combi+LFT with options for weapons like spitfires are just brutal. That said, I think the Liu Xing is better at assassinating key troops. For example, a couple of the opponents I regularly faced would either take saladin or have some other obvious lt somewhere like an interventor on a roof. So far, IA's (and YJ's) only really reliable method of assassinating these pieces, that we know of right now, are AD units now that we've lost our superior infiltration. Both a tiger and a liu xing can drop down next to them with a boarding shotgun and blast them in the face, but the liu xing forces them to either dodge or get hit by an exploding template too (we don't know its effects, but I'm gonna assume right now it's the same as the normal explode template so DAM13 shock). Even in the worst case scenario where they just tank the exploding template and shoot my drop troop in the face, the liu xing's still standing with NWI while the tiger would be taken down by a single armor roll. As smaller perks, the liu xing can also pack things like multi-rifles for shock and AP ammo to help against more targets and, when (not if) it dies, there's no body left for the enemy to doctor-roll, forward observe, spotlight, or coup-de-grace for a classified obj point.

TLDR: Tiger soldier is our general-purpose AD gunfighter while the Liu Xing is better at assassinating obvious LTs or if you just really want a specific enemy destroyed.

EDIT: Just realized you can also run a su jian over, but that's more order intensive than dropping an AD unit down, especially if you have to cautious move through enemy ARO pieces or drop smoke. I think AD is our best option to efficiently assassinate key enemies.

 

You know, normally I'd say such reactions is a bit hyperbolic but ever since I saw my friend use 40k codex for the elite Space Wolves company, as rules for his pure Khorne army (because Space Wolves were better Khorne units than actual Khorne units), I'm honestly tempted to do the same with MO. Like, use the Crane as the newly revised Santiago, the Zuyongs as Hospitaliers or something. That way we can actually feel like a CC HI army... like... you know.. what YJ is actually suppose to do.

This all depends on how bad IA bombs, obviously.

 

It’s admittedly a small point, but Red Veil came out 2 years ago. 2 years is a long time for things to change in terms of sectorial makeup.

 

The Japanese voted Leave for a laugh and now deeply regret it.

 

Kuang Shi are AVA 4 in vanilla, so not as potently. Though the 5 order package of Daofei and Kuang Shi comes to 70+ points.

 

Deploy Mine ARO vs Zhencha - Zhencha BSG Normal rolls 2 dice on 15s with BSG.
Next Order Zhencha Dodges the Mine with a 50% (yes it's 50, not 45 like some people claimed). 50% chance to make ARM roll in case of failure.
25% chance of death, which isn't great, but also something a Dasyus would love to have.

The only Skirmisher more resiliant to Mines than the Zhencha would be Dart, being second should be okay.
Yes, yes, I know. Zhencha is still a HI and it still feels fucking bad. But still 2nd best.

That might be because these troops are worst case okay at their job without competition in their Sectorial.
Someone might want to sell you that as a problem, but this is fair in a Sectorial.

Another issue is circlejerk around Uprising, which can be summed up as one giant shitshow driven by a few entitled individuals who never wanted to settle for anything less than ther ridiculous demands.

 

Bringing Dart into this discussion is not going to help anything!

My issues with the zencha are many and varied but I am glad to see at least a couple of people conceive potential. I learnt Infinity facing nomads and ariadna so traumatic memories of mine networks as well as koala nets with repeaters still haunt me. The zencha is woefully equipped to deal with them to my eyes and if I recall properly the hackable trait is public information even on a marker. Even if I decide I can afford to spend 30+ points to hide a marker in some remote location waiting for the late game to button press they are only WiP 13, which isn't the worst but it's also pretty low in comparison to many others with similar roles.

Even if we assume the go-hide tactic it's worth noting that the zencha is always hackable, that means opponents can spotlight it (with an evo helping) or sensor sweep to reveal it and then attempt to isolate it with oblivion leaving the poor guy without access to the orders to even contribute late game. If you brought the AHD then the opponent more likely to just use a killer hacker to fry his brain.

 

I want to calm down and actually make some plans for the model.

But why does everyone else acts like we 'should' be upset, or 'must' remain silent?

The forum's a vast place for some opinion sharing and a place for feedback, while I did got some good materials to think (why, thanks @Alphz for that.) about, Im little bit worried that the wildfire goes into Uprising level mayhem.

Dunno, this might look stupid, but I'll wait until actual roster reveal. I can go crazy after that. Just saying.

 

Why the obsession with mines? I have to say, I've lost very few camo infiltrators to mines. I tend to lose them to the natural predator of 1 W troops with BS mods that start close to the enemy; warbands. The Zhencha is pretty good against warbands! High PH for dodging templates, high ARM for soaking hits, NWI if they fail their save.

 

That is true. I'm just avoiding building up expectations.

Considering that the MSniper is the only weapon decent enough to use Sapper... also I'm reasonably certain Haidao are made to mesh with Zuyong. I'm hoping, not expecting, that they will have a KHD.
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I do note that the Son-Bae has a Special Fireteam, but no clear natural place to join in. We can't trust the preview image to show all Fireteams nor for them to be reciprocated properly between Specials. There's 3 Cores and 2 Haris, all of which has overlap. Neither Zhanshi nor Zuyong needs a Missile Launcher as much as they might benefit from a slightly cheaper body. Shang-Ji is likely going to be too expensive to Core regardless and it's not like CB to build for 400 points, but this could be the place for it even if Shang-Ji with Wildcard (when was this said, or is this speculation?). It is possible that IA won't get a Son-Bae FTO, but actually be able to plug in a SML into a Core Fireteam - and honestly I don't see how an SML somehow is too strong for a Fireteam since Guided mode is hard coded to be B1 anyway.

 

ML and Feubarach are bad (or Ojotnik) ?