It's 8-4, a Specialist, has anti-materiel, and has MA. The previous Montessas didn't have any of those things.
It didnt need them and achieved the same outcomes through largely different means. (Apart from scoring) This one doesnt have bs14 lgl lrl sptifire mech deployment or the abillity to claim cover. Thats a list of what they do not a description or analysis of their roles
I would say that to outflank you usually need a lot of orders but we are getting too much into theoryfinity territory. I wonder what kind of Pano magic makes his engine run silent?
Stages of grief: "Denial, anger, bargaining, depression and acceptance." Sounds like denial . Because the old Montessa definitely can't do anything to an AC2. No amount of Spitfiring or LGLing gives you anti-materiel. And getting a bike Specialist is big. It sucks to lose a unit you like, but this is a net gain for the playability and flexibility of the faction as a whole.
They simply could have given the old Montessa a DA CCW and a paramedic profile. That way we could have still used the old mini and they would have achieved something similar. The Teutons on Bikes would have added something to MO and they simply could make up a reason to put them in Varuna too, just like they did make something up for the Montessa. It's not much of a difference, but it seems way more senseable.
I disagree, those jobs can and were filled by other profiles that still exist. A forward alpha striking HI does something unique that a fast bike HI doe not
First, this change reduce the footprint of the choice to play a Montesa a lot compared to before. Because you couldn't be sure to start and the Montesa was an easy kill if not protected. If you had to go second, you had to play the Fort Alamo game until the first wave was out. Uberfall Kommandos were one of the most effective troops to kill a Montesa as the Chimera has her Pupniks to clear minefield, Eclipse to block LoF and Climbing plus to get into CC with the hidden Montesa effortlessly. The old Montesa was a nice for playing Quadrant control and Frontline but it was a gamble more than anything else. And I'm saying this as fan of them. Second, he is now our best unit in scenarios that require to make CC attacks with an antimaterial weapon. Yes, GdA and Machinist can do this but once the D-Charges are out, it is over. Plus he is really effective in scenarios with exclusion zones. Your Nagas and Old Montesas were stick to 4" forward compared to the new knight. In Comm Center, for example, he is more effective than a Naga to capture effectively an objective. The last thing is he now puts out a bit the pressure to not lose the Nagas before they fulfill their mission. If they die, it is ok, you still have one of the fastest specialist hanging around and he has 2W.
The Montesa before felt like a worse alternative to a Guarda de Assaulto to me. The price for the spitfire was almost the same, but the Guarda brought higher BS, higher burst, and smoke to cover itself. The increase in efficiency on the Montesa I felt like was lost to the increase in utility on the Guarda. The two units have less spillover now, which is a good thing. The Montesa now has almost meaningful levels of CC and a DA CCW, a template and is a decent shot. Maybe it's because I'm coming from JSA, but I feel like I can leverage a loadout like the Montesa Paramedic for more than I could the old Montesa.
This, Montesa actually worked well, at least in ASA. Teuton is still a big ugly Magister that can't link. At this point I am expecting they will nerf them further or squat them. I would be 100% on board with the biker knights if they had lower ARM, no Cubes and black crosses.
Everyone keeps dragging this up but bike Montessa is actually fluff accurate over any other order. They were always supposed to be "mobile, mechanized, the vanguard and aggressive spearhead." I'm totally on board about being bummed over losing the versatility of the previous incarnation, but it's not out of line in fluff and no other really fits the bill for being bikers. I would agree that the profile feels very limited though. Many of the orders have sub orders and it's a bit disappointing that this wasn't the first step to fleshing out that idea rather just reworking it entirely. But this does give me some hope for other knights to get their chance at a better look.
Edit: you know what its just not worth it. If you really think the old montessa was bland and boring or weak and easily beaten then there is nothing i can say to you outside of i fundamentally couldnt disagree with that assesment more. Enjoy the new shiney, chase the rainbow
Never said he was weak. I said you had to build around him like you fielded a TAG. Montesa is the only HI I have ever played that required such investissments in his security. You don't build a list around a GdA, a SG or an Aquila. They fit in a list, that's just it. The new Montesa fits in a list, you don't have to build your list around him. I agree with you, no SWC options on a heavy troop in PanO is weird as hell. It is the first time I see this. But now, that the old Montesa is gone, we have to make it with the new one. Look to what he can do rather than all he can't.
If you arent buikding lists aroubd 60+pt minis you are building funny lists. But your right the old one is gone, it sucks to put it mildly. And the new one, im not convinced it has the stones to be useful but well see. However i will still express my disgust at how this was handled
Tell that to all those "funny" lists without any model that cost more than ~35pts, where on average models cost around 15pts. But I guess it's because of the different meaning of the word "funny" in our metas.
Context was youbare taking the 60+ pt unit and not building around it.... Not that you arent taking it at all
Taking expensive pieces that requires babysitting and hard support from the rest of the list is, in my opinion, the indication that there is something wrong with a particular expensive trooper. That's why it is more common to fight against more spammy lists with multiple lesser threads then 1CG lists with one/two heavy units.
Ayadan's point is that original Montesas are slightly cheaper than, say, GdA, yet require more attention and support then the other HI, so it won't end up as a lonely and easy to kill 40+ pts. That's not true, it's simply that bigger investment requires more careful approach to be worth it. A warband or cheap infiltrator can be a throwaway unit. A TAG - not so much. If expensive units wouldn't require support, it'd make them no-brainer rambos.
You really are missing the point, your assesment is also flawed pretty badly Yeah and i disagree. Hidden reserve model and all that made em pretty immune to counter attack. And if you went second you didnt nees to be as aggresive with them
