My opponent's army includes a baggage bot that has died, and starts his turn with 78 points on the board. Does he go into retreat? Relevant passages: The hive mind on WGC Infinity came to the conclusion that because baggage is an Automatic equipment, all of its rules are entirely cancelled when the model is unconscious-- so, while alive, a baggage bot is worth 28 points and your retreat threshold is 80pts. If it dies, the bot is worth 8 points (in, for example, Annihilation) and your retreat threshold is 75pts. My TO is arguing that the modified threshold still applies because of the text in Baggage Example 1: "When deploying [...], the player calculates [...] ." His argument is that due to the wording, this calculation is made at a specific time, during your deployment, and doesn't change later based on model states. I can see both arguments. Is there an official ruling on which one is correct?
1) A TO's job in a ruling situation isn't to be right-- it's to move the game forward. But after the event is over, it's good to find out what the correct interpretation is for the next time a situation comes up. Hence this thread. 2) "My TO is arguing" does not mean "I am having an unpleasant conflict with my TO". It means that several potentially valid positions have been put forth, and that is the one my TO is advocating.
Interesting. I think the TO's ruling is actually pretty sound. I'm also poor at maths so assuming multiple baggage bots and the possibility of having some destroyed and others alive it's much cleaner having a single retreats value rather than having to recalculate. It is a poor reason for wanting to keep it as a single figure though nothing in Infinity is clean :)
The benefit of baggage is that it counts towards domination and makes retreat slightly less likely. The risk of baggage is, if the trooper with it dies, you've lost all those points. Your opponent was in retreat.
RAW, the TO was right, but based off of that example, CB doesn't play it that way, so who knows. Another example of CB writing shoddy rules and expecting us to do the legwork to patch it up.
Just FYI when units with baggage go unconcious in army mobile, it changes your pts at which retreat occurs to not include the baggage points. Not anywhere close to an official answer but it seems to be a really specific way to program if that isnt the deliberate intention.
The way I see it, Baggage doesn't really make you less likely to retreat. The chart in the wiki shows that the retreat threshold for a 300pt army with a single Baggage trooper would be 80pts (i.e. calculated from adjusted-to-account-for-Baggage 320 pts, not base 300) - the same 75% losses.
I've always played it that the extra points from baggage always count; your retreat threshold is based off of the larger value and baggage bots are worth 28 points whether alive or dead.
It's an Automatic skill. It turns off when in a Null state. Null Baggage does not count to your Retreat threshold. No there isn't an official answer. @ijw @tox
@ijw Interesting. We always played it at tournaments that Baggage counts towards surviving army points as well as kill points to make it more rewarding but more risky as well. So we only count it towards surviving army points?
So just to make it explicit: if all of your baggage has died, your retreat threshold resets back down to 75?
Yes. Although most people haven't been playing that way, I can't see any reading of the Baggage rules that would keep the Retreat threshold higher.
Interesting. I had similar problem on Interplanetario and I think TO's advice was to count baggage (20 pts) also in "points killed" as neither I or my opponent were sure how to actually resolve that.
Just to summarize - The game tells you when to calculate your retreat threshold, and at that time all your baggage is alive. You're never directed/permitted to alter it during the course of the game. When a baggage bot dies, its baggage rule stops working. But that still means you just lots those additional points it was providing.
yes, and that when from retreat is "at the beginning of their Active Turn, during the Tactical Phase," Which is also the same timing as from the Baggage rule : "Players apply that increase when calculating the Victory Points the player has during the Retreat! Check of the Active Turn's Tactical Phase." How many Active Turn do you have in a game ? 3 (generally speaking). So if at your second Active Turn's Tactical phase, you have no model with Baggage, then there is no Baggage modifier to apply when you calculate your threshold. not sure what you mean by that. Do you mean you don't recalculate in the middle of you turn ? That I agree. If you mean you don't recalculate at your following Active Turn Tactical Phase when instructed to do so, that i disagree.
