Hi everyone, Had a matter come up in a game last night and wanted to see if we have any cast-iron clarity on the definition of trajectory for the purposes of Speculative Fire. At a high level, my question is: "Is the trajectory for Guided Fire and Speculative fire always defined as a ballistic trajectory (ie. Grenade goes up, grenade comes down)?" The implication of this trajectory being ballistic is that models who are hiding in buildings with roofs become nominally immune to Guided and Speculative Fire. So, the rules for Spec Fire say: he user may make a single BS Attack against a target outside his LoF. If the user employs a BS Weapon with the Circular Impact Template Trait, this Skill allows him to place the center of the Circular Template somewhere other than over the target of the attack. However, the target must be inside the Area of Effect of the Circular Template. In that case, both the target of the attack and the point of impact may be chosen irrespective of LoF. Place the Template directly on the game table or horizontally over a piece of terrain, and never on a vertical surface or in the air. Declaring Speculative Fire entails a -6 MOD to BS or the relevant Attribute. This MOD is added to all others MODs applicable to the BS Attack (Range, Cover, etc.). With my key point here being rules legal placement of a template does not indicate any limitations imposed on the pathing/trajectory of the munition, as long as some trajectory exists (see below): The FAQ in the wiki entry clarifies: Q: Can you do Speculative Fire or Guided Attack from or into a sealed room? A: No you can’t, because there is no way to trace the trajectory of the Attack. So, then we come to the question: What limitations are there to the pathing/trajectory of a Guided/Speculative munition? The example in the Wiki implies a ballistic one: But that doesn't mean that all trajectories need to be ballistic. In our science-fiction setting, I don't see why it would be impossible to have semi-smart munitions that swing wide, dive through windows and otherwise catch models that are sitting under roofs. This notion is reinforced by the fact that the game uses similar rules for Guided Fire. So, in the diagram below, I suppose I'm asking if Fusilier Angus is a legal target for Speculative Fire: Predicates: Fusilier Angus is not in a Sealed Room. The door is wide open. The Attacker does not have direct Line of Fire to Angus, there is no window, the diagram is just showing us where Angus is sitting within the building. The roof prevents any munition 'falling' onto Angus: A legal ballistic trajectory does not exist. The only legal trajectory that reaches him involves swinging wide and low, a 'smart munition' might be capable of doing this. So, thoughts? According to the rules, Angus is not in a sealed room and the attacker can make an attack against him without LOF. Do we assume that all models have 'Smart-grenades' that bounce around corners on demand? Personally, I'm in favor of clarifying that Speculative Fire and Guided Fire do not require a ballistic arc, just that the target is not within a 'Sealed Room': Not even smart munitions can swing into an elevator, press 'Level 3', listen to Muzak and then wait until the Elevator door opens before detonating.
My understanding is that ballistic trajectories were explicitly required in N2, and the requirement was explicitly removed in N3. So we accept a level of abstraction/handwaving simply because the simulationist alternative gives us arguments over shadow zones.
Grenades were changed tto teleportation intentionally so that people would actually use the skill. Also note how the FAQ gives the only situation where Speculative Fire can't be used.
@Musterkrux that's a good question you're asking. I would never have considered a shot like this as legal, but after searching the rules, i find nothing preventing player from doing this. Quite odd... But your point seems legal to me, so let's go for smart bouncing grenades !
There's no trajectory. You don't have to measure along one, even to determine the range. The only limitation is that you can't fire into a sealed room, and that was only added after many players complained that it was immersion breaking to be able to.
There clearly is a trajectory of sorts, as per the Sealed Room FAQ: Q: Can you do Speculative Fire or Guided Attack from or into a sealed room? A: No you can’t, because there is no way to trace the trajectory of the Attack. The implication being that a trajectory being necessarily traceable is why you can't spec-fire into a Sealed Room. However, yes, you're right. It seems like you can Spec Fire anywhere without qualification, as long as the target isn't in a Sealed Room. Whatever the definition of a Sealed Room is.
Parabolic trajectories and shadow zones were purposefully removed in N3. Fluff it as smart munitions, penetrating delayed blast minutions, airburst, or magic teleporting grenades, or anything else you like, it makes Spec Fire actually useful.
More importantly, it prevents the game from breaking down into arguments about "legal ballistic trajectories." This is a game with invisible ninja hackers, space werewolves, nuns with guns, and pokemon-training artichokes. Maybe don't worry about physics so much.
Part of the problem is that N2 didn't actually use parabolic trajectories, intervening vertical terrain created a "shadow zone" equal to it's height where you couldn't target Spec Fire, this meant that a 4" high wall cast a 4" long shadow. Even if you were only 1" away from said 4" wall and a true parabolic trajectory would allow you to attack an enemy stood 1" away from the other side of the wall, the shadow zone was still 4" and blocked the attack, I can't even remember how it handled attackers and defenders being on different levels.
I find it makes it much easier if you consider the munitions as "explode on target" rather than "explode on impact" As in, grenade is bounced off the door frame (for instance) and hits Angus
Certainly helps explain how munitions that don't make it to their target location do not explode. A realistic fail safe mechanism in general.
