They actually still retain the same armor style, besides black friars and os. Sure in todays scale they look a bit more like mi, but they still look fantastic next to the new stuff. The new magisters actually look kind of derpy next to each other, due to incredibly thin female and barrel chested males.
*shrugs* This is absolutely going to be a subjective artistic assessment involving individual prioritisation of aesthetic elements. For me the scale difference is far more egregious than the male/female contrast (perhaps because I use the old Joan V2 as a Magister regularly already). And, keep in mind, I say this as someone who HATES the new Panzerfaust and wishes it would die in a fire, while I LOVE the old shoulder-Faust. So I REALLY WANT to like the old Magisters alongside the new Knights.
for me, I am willing to rationalize the scale as lighter power armor , all for the sake of better , more dynamic posing (which granted makes it harder to store) and better overall proportions. But like you said it is subjective , no reason for me to be like "your opinion is shiiiit" when you have an entirely valid reason for your preference.
quite over the opposite trench line here: I dig the new Magister and found the female adds very fitting Fluffwise I think that MO really deserves is a bit of an overhaul, an haris option or two, then some reflections or knights orders, some are just old paradiso rule set trash now (Teutons) others are subpar (Santiago) others I can't wrap my head around (KotHS) and then there is the big missed opportunity that is the Father Knight ... take the Santiago e.g. why don't stress their role as fast and hard hitting patrol force on circulars and naval units and pair them heavily with the Jeanne V2 Mobility Armour concept: lowering ARM to 3 or even 2 and boosting MOV to 6-2 plus giving a viable specialist profile like FO (paramedic seems odd to me). Now they can compete with Hospitallers. Too much wishful thinking I know though. Anyone knows something about the mid october announced changes of MO profiles and rules?
honestly I think depending on the board the santiago provides a very efficient side grade to the hospitaller. However most boards demand an hmg, specially with our complete lack of other options for leaving the deployment zone
I agree that it depends on the board, but I don't think MO needs to rely on that Hospitaller HMG as much as people imply. We have a few other good long range options, using them opens up some more possibililties. Linked OS HRL or MSR (from my experience at full link Burst 3 can work just fine against most AROs). Flanking Crusaders (and they have access to HMGs as well). Linked Magister ML (it's more of an ARO option, but in favorable condition can work just fine. Including one in Santiago/Magister fireteam works well). And I think Montesa Spitfire really doesn't get the recognition it deserves. And using Seraph to simply brute force our way out of the DZ works perfectly fine. Not to mention Sierra with Supportware on.
Its not that its table fault, but its MO's as it doesnt have other option. Heck even Tunguska has Kriza with almost same damagr output as full HI link (plus smoke, plus linked Feubarach etc.). Santiagos could see more table if there was other way for MO to lwave their own DZ. Spitfire against linked ML/Feubarach/MSR is not fun (especially as most people now have vis mods so your ultra expensive BS14 is worse than a BS12 Frontovick).
I think they said around November PanO would be receiving some army updates. With each new passing release MO and NCA just feel older and older. their rules and link options feel very dated and simplistic compared to what we are getting now.
It's not that great, but it doesn't suck, either. Spitfire, MSR and HRL heavy weapons, Paramedic for a specialist and last chance healing. It's limited, but can still work. Would work much better with a Wildcard Clipper and/or (reworked) Father Knight, no arguing there ;) edit: I've actually ran something like this a few times as a defensive link (sometimes with MSR in place of one HRL). It does the job. Military Orders ────────────────────────────────────────────────── 5 ORDER SERGEANT Heavy Rocket Launcher / Assault Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 15) ORDER SERGEANT Heavy Rocket Launcher / Assault Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 15) ORDER SERGEANT Paramedic (MediKit) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 15) ORDER SERGEANT Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 13) ORDER SERGEANT Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 13) 3 SWC | 71 Points Open in Infinity Army
Well even "simple" wildcart FK would benefit OS as BS14 linked ML is no joke as ARO, and shooting it down might not be that easy (hello ARM8 in cover, suck it Viral ammo BTS12). Suddenly it makes sense rather than poor solo no-vis-mods please-shoot-me 50 pts of waste. Also Spitfire FK and/or FK AHD/FO (with decent gun) could see more play. Though some thought put into FK would be nice (like SS1 for AHD FK ? Or AHD+White Hacking Device ?)
Yeah, I was seriously perplexed when running the numbers on F-K ML. I can understand the theory, tough, high BS unit with such weapon can be scary. But with Burst one and no mods it can be defeated by pretty much everything with a Spitfire.
For me it is just a matter of burst being king, and I dont trust a burst 3 hrl or sniper in a 5 man vs a burst 2 ML in a 5 man. Specially when they tend to have comparative bs, or hell it might be bs 13 base vs our order sgt bs 12 base. Flanking crusaders I've experimented with, and while I like in some cases, half the time i feel i'd be better served with a TOFO due to how TO will swing the exchanges.
Problem is that Crusader HMG or Spitfire will lose against QDrone, while TOFOOS is specilaist, can start on table and will induct -12 mods on everyone but MSV2 or linked troops (still -9 though).
Against a standard TR remote linked OS HRL chances are 52% to TR's 26%. Not bad against a prime ARO unit. Single Hospitaller with HMG has roughly the same chances (a bit under 52 to around 22 for TR). Linked Hospitaller fares far better, of course, but as we all know Pain Train is a major point sink. So... five orders for just under 70 pts, similar performance to 41 pts unit granting a single order. For me it's often worth it. Against Q-Drone? Sure, Mimetism swings it a bit. But against any other TR drone - BS 13 to BS 11, same burst, most likely both units in cover (or TR drone flanked). Btw, Q-Drone still loses if you manage to catch it out of cover.
Someone thought they can be Daylami and then missed a fact that FK cost like 6 times more and do not have camo.
Like I said I understand, however the Hospitaller can afford to lose 1 exchange and fail his armor (which he has a significant advantage on the order sgt for passing) whereas once the order sgt loses that exchange he is likely to go down, and even if you have a back up hrl the odds start shifting. A hospitaller + 2 magisters is very near in cost to 5 order sgts, and in my opinion far more threatening. and once we start hitting those linked missile launchers the chances for the order sgt drop drastically. vs Tunguska's linked grenzer ML, its 38% vs 41% and it is in the grenzer's favor
I fully agree on Hospitaller durability, but it's still a lower order pool. Different playstyles or simply lists, both have their place. Hospitaller +2 Magisters can work, but it also fills the Core slot without getting full bonuses. We really should have a Haris option of Knight + 2 squires. And true, against something like full link with good BS OS's aren't that hot. But our Hospitaller chances wouldn't be that good either, 38 to 38. We simply need to use different tools to get past such strongpoints. Something like Peacemaker with its Auxbot. Or Montesa LGL. or Bulleteer with MML2 up.
