Example from a recent game. Asawira Doc moves into BtB with a friendly civilian, and successfully synchronizes. Then he uses more orders to move with said Civilian into Haqq Deployment zone across the field of fire of my Frontovik HRL, with Civilian in BtB the entire time, basically using him as a human shield. So much for humanist enlightment :P We resolved to treat this situation like shooting into CC, and I took the risk using HRL in Hit Mode. Managed to kill that Doc, too. The question is: is it possible to keep a synchronized unit in BtB when moving?
I'd argue that, just as template weapons will catch everyone who 'paths' over them in that order (you know, when link teams catch templates, regardless of the perceived timing of 'when they might have walked over the template') you don't 'track' the exact pathing of a model in relation to other models moving during the same order. So, I reckon you've got a legal shot (just as long as you don't drop a template on the civilian. Disregard, I am an idiot: Also, it's mathematically impossible for one base to block LOF between two other bases, if all three are the same size. You'll always be able to draw a line from the edge of the shooter to the edge of the target's base, past the blocking base. It's a concept used in Warmachine but entirely applicable here. /Disregard
No its not. They are not engaged which is what kicks in the shooting into cc rule. So while you woulnt be able to template. The to hit mode is perfectly fine to use to job the asawira as a normal shot
Am I missing a rule where someone is 'engaged' with the civilian but can move freely? I don't understand how you couldn't just shoot hit mode?
I could and I did, as described in my post. What I wanted to know is if I haven't missed some kind of interaction between BtB and moving. So basically you can move while maintaining BtB contact, this makes it unable to use template weapons on such a team, but non-template weapons shoot normally, without risking hitting the civilian. @Errhile, looks like we have this one solved. I still argue that it wasn't a civilized move, Comrade Hassassin :P
Ohhhh I see. Yeah I think you can use civilians to block templates pretty easily but I think that's one of the reasons CB brought in non-template modes. For cc rules to apply you need to be engaged.
Not relevant to this example, but some weapons don't have a "hit" mode - like Light Shotguns. Which means you can completely deny their use by shepherding the Civvie directly behind your active model from the direction of the AROing troop.
It is mathematically possible in Infinity because at least one of the two figures need to be able to draw a line to at least a 3x3mm area, effectively making one of the models' bases 6mm diameter smaller than the other for this purpose.
Ahh true. Mea Culpa. I'd still argue that pathing isn't truly simultaneous, so there would still be a legal shot for the ARO piece.
Light Shoguns don't have a hit mode Absolutely, but mostly for the reasons @Alphz wrote: templates perpetuate in Close Combat, not base-to-base contact. I'm sure that Doctors really want to be able to make walk-by Doctor rolls (while on the other hand I'm sure that Camo markers really want that to not count as being base-to-base...)
the template is placed at declaration, its trivial to have the Civie touch it and "cancel" the attack., Hit mode is really the only way to do it
Depends on. You can't do this if you move->shoot in order to bait out AROs. You'd need to shoot-move or move-move to do it, which puts you in a bit of a pickle if your opponent manages to put two AROs on you where one is a potent blast such as a HRL and the other is, for example, a Multi Sniper. I think this is the reason why I consider the "human shield" tactic to be fair, in order to use it in many situations you'd have to play slightly less optimally.
you'd only "have to play slightly less optimally" if you are hell bent on having the civvie strapped to your model's butt. He can always....NOT have the civvie move in such a way that will hinder him versus a non-template weapon? It's a strict buff frankly, which I feel is as silly as "oh here's a free order Tarik, because you're you" was :P
While moving the models cannot hide behind each other (it'd be nice to being able to hide the Chimera behind the Pupniks!) From FAQs: Q: When two or more troopers activate simultaneously, (through a Coordinated Order or Fireteam, for example) can one of them “hide” behind the others to avoid AROs? A: No. Troopers don’t block LoF while moving. So funnily enought, in this case he should move covering the Civie for him acting as an human shield (vs templates) and not the other way around.
1. From http://infinitythewiki.com/en/Civilian_Rules REMEMBER As Civilians are considered Neutral models, being in base to base contact with them doesn't activate the Engaged state (see Infinity N3). 2. Also from http://infinitythewiki.com/en/Civilian_Rules Civilians don't block LoF. Yes, that's what the text you quoted says...
Don't forget you can fire in three dimensions to avoid clipping civilians. With shotguns and plasma you can angle them upward if the enemy trooper is closer.
