[MILITARY ORDERS TACTICS] Quo Peregrinatur Grex Pastor Secum ["300pts Box" WiP 06/04/19]

Honestly i try to do some button pushing early with TO OS, since i have a penchant for putting people in retreat when i dont mean to.

However mines as area denial in mid field plus suppresive fire and to can keep your OS alive in the midfield.

When running magister and hospitaller link in combination with TO OS. I find that if i have the orders and can end the link in a decent aro position in the midfield, the enemy has to make a hell of a choice to either engage the link or try to dislodge the TO OS.

But such a list very much likes going first.

 

I haven't found any "Military Orders 300 pts Box" (as mentionned in your guide, towards the end), am I not looking in the right location?

 

It's not out yet.

 

So I tried a list for Tic-Tac-Toe...

Military Orders
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GROUP 1 10
ORDER SERGEANT Heavy Rocket Launcher / Assault Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 15)
ORDER SERGEANT Spitfire / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 19)
ORDER SERGEANT Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 13)
ORDER SERGEANT Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 13)
ORDER SERGEANT Paramedic (MediKit) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 15)
SPEC. SERGEANT (CH: TO Camouflage, Infiltration, Forward Observer) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 27)
SERAPH Spitfire, Nanopulser + AUXBOT_1 / EXP CCW. (2 | 82)
AUXBOT_1 Heavy Flamethrower / Electric Pulse. (- | 4)
AUXBOT_1 Heavy Flamethrower / Electric Pulse. (- | 4)
PATHFINDER DRONBOT Combi Rifle, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 16)
PATHFINDER DRONBOT Combi Rifle, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 16)
PEACEMAKER Heavy Shotgun + AUXBOT_3 / Electric Pulse. (0 | 21)
AUXBOT_3 Heavy Flamethrower / Electric Pulse. (- | 4)
GROUP 2 3
MULEBOT Hacker (EVO Hacking Device) Electric Pulse. (0.5 | 25)
FUSILIER Lieutenant Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10)
SPEC. SERGEANT (CH: TO Camouflage, Infiltration, Forward Observer) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 27)
5 SWC | 299 Points
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There was a variant of it where I lost the Seraph to gain a Father Knight Spitfire Lieutenant, a Bulleteer and a Machinist as well, but I decided to go balls to the wall which was a mistake.

Only reason I won was the TOFO's, who did phenomenal work on the final turn, and because I had won the initiative roll off and chosen to go second. I played the Seraph far too aggressively, same with the Peacemaker, and they were both shot to pieces. It felt like an incredibly uphill struggle, but I'm not sure how I'd have built the list differently. I built it around a core of the OS Core Fireteam (toyed with Konstantinos again), 2 Pathfinders, and 2 TOFO's, but then it felt like it was really lacking in punch, hence the addition of the Seraph. The evo hacker was a godsend just for the +3 wip, which my god I needed.

Button pushing missions just seem really hard to build a solid list for, but I'm not sure what I would necessarily have changed about either that list or the slight variant.

 

I think your list is fine. You just need more experience using TAGs. They have a bit of a learning curve to overcome before you can use TAGs effectively.

 

@herod1204 fully intent on being constructive I can give you a summary what is problematic with your list.
Feel free to skip and ignore.

Spoiler

1. Your only firebase are Seraph and OS Link.
- The OS Link is DZ bound, fragile and struggles against TR Bots Linked MLs/Snipers as well as TO MLs/Snipers.
- While TOFOOS get the job done they take a while to chew through stuff and would rather hide and stay alive for later to push buttons.

2. The list is very weak in the Reactive Turn.
- Going second there is one linked HRL and maybe the Peacemaker that slows your opponent down before he can take out your key targets.

3. Your aggressive potential is entirely obvious.
- A TO MSR or Crusader goes a long way to open up additional attack vectors your opponent didn't suspect.
(- a Core Linked Hospitaler HMG can be obvious, because B5 BS17 backed by Hyperdynamics meatshield solves a lot of problems by itself)

4. You have a lot of Points in Specialists together with the weak OS Core.
- EVO, 2 TOFOOs and 2 Pathfinders is a lot of support for just 2 agressive Combat troops.

5. The list isn't using synergies very well.
- Running a Seraph allows you to forfeit an expensive Hacker and/or unlocks 3x8points Order REMs.
- A TAG benefits a lot from a Machinist and Techbee and so do Combat Remotes, unfortunately neither make an appearance.

To be blunt I don't know how to improve the list without rebuilding it from scratch, sorry.
For me the main problem would be that the OS Link and a Seraph actually don't pair well. Their combined SWC cost makes them extremely prohibitive for the rest of the list.

 

MO only has ava 1 Fugazi. Otherwise good points.

He could try something like this:

Military Orders
──────────────────────────────────────────────────

GROUP 1 10
ORDER SERGEANT Heavy Rocket Launcher / Assault Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 15)
ORDER SERGEANT Spitfire / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 19)
ORDER SERGEANT Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 13)
ORDER SERGEANT Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 13)
ORDER SERGEANT Paramedic (MediKit) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 15)
SERAPH Spitfire, Nanopulser + AUXBOT_1 / EXP CCW. (2 | 82)
AUXBOT_1 Heavy Flamethrower / Electric Pulse. (- | 4)
AUXBOT_1 Heavy Flamethrower / Electric Pulse. (- | 4)
PATHFINDER DRONBOT Combi Rifle, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 16)
MACHINIST (Father-Engineer) Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 15)
PALBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)
SPEC. SERGEANT (CH: TO Camouflage, Infiltration, Forward Observer) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 27)
CRUSADER MULTI Rifle + Light Flamethrower / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 31)

GROUP 2 3
FUGAZI DRONBOT Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
FUSILIER Lieutenant Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10)
SPEC. SERGEANT (CH: TO Camouflage, Infiltration) MULTI Sniper Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 33)

6 SWC | 300 Points

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Well aside from whats pointed out already.

Tic tac toe is a horrid mission and its maker should be beaten with bricks

 

Herp derp. I should have know. Forgive me Teslarod!

 

Thank you all for your thoughts, they are hugely appreciated.

@Teslarod Yes, yes, and 50 times yes. The list felt wonky when I was putting it together, and it showed it on the table. A lot of it was guided by my being desperate to try certain specific things (i.e. the peacemaker), and I figured that if I was running an Evo hacker (and I would definitely run one again for this specific mission), I should try to maximise its usage by running lots of Rems. I decided against a machinist as the Seraph was to be a suicide piece, charge into their DZ turn one and gut their order pool (which he did in all fairness), and then ideally last until turn 2 as a pain in the backside, but I got greedy and got him killed instead. But really, I never expected or cared about him surviving. A peacemaker as a secondary attack piece was probably a bad idea tbh, and I should have run it with the spitfire rather than the shotgun.

Normally I never leave home without my TOMSR as I bloody love them, but it was a points issue this time around. The double TOFO and double Pathfinder was in response to an earlier comment that suggested that with an OS core was a strong move for this sort of mission. I think that was the problem, there just wasnt enough firepower in the list. And it showed too, my opponent was running ISS with a Crane Train, some Kuang Shi, and a smattering of other bits including a Wu Ming HRL ARO piece. While the Seraph chewed up the Wu Ming with some luck, some of his remotes and a chunk of his back line, it failed to damage the Crane Train at all. Spitfire is often so disappointing alas.

ARO's I struggle with. I really, really, REALLY psychologically struggle to leave a piece out as a sacrificial lamb that I know is going to deplete my order pool, unless it is something like a TR bot or a Sin Eater. I am getting moderately better at it, but in an army as expensive as Military Orders, I just sometimes give up on the reactive turn entirely, and rely on the fear of TOMSR to slow my opponent down.

But I pretty much agree with everything you've said. I was struggling to see the woods for the trees.

@Death I quite like that as a list for less button-pushey missions, but for Tic-Tac-Toe I worry about a lack of redundancy in specialists. Having double TOFO gave me the confidence that I could hit midfield and beyond buttons across the board, with the pathfinders as backup to hit the buttons closest to my DZ.

I want to try Crusaders more. Coming from Nomads, specifically Corregidor, I have gotten far too used to the glory that is Tomcats. I actually ran a list with two Crusaders and a Seraph the other day, which was a nasty shock for my partner. Though he is always a tad careful nowadays after I ran a 4 Hellcat list once... https://www.mercrecon.net/2017/05/29/todays-forecast-hellcats-and-grenades/

@eciu Oh god yes. THis time around, my TOFO came out on turn 2, and chewed through a celestial guard, a kuang shi, a CSU and a Sophotect, before whacking three buttons in a row on a turn 3. He was MVP by a substantial margin!

 

According to a post on Bostria Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/p/BnoQu_zHj-9/?taken-by=bostria - we sould get a solid start in the upcoming MO 300pts box (Jeanne, Hospitaller box, Sergeants box, Black Friar MR, Crusader Brethren MR LFT). If it will be the case I am sold and I will jump on the Crusading MO wagon adding a Magisters box and De Fersen.

As a Nomad (vanilla and sectorial) and Steel Phalanx player I imagine a steep learning curve to get results with MO - Nomad are easy mode, Steel Phalanx hard mode, MO hardcore in Diablo :D

ps: eciu nice tactica and quite awesome Virgin Mary meme on top

 

i thought the 300 point box would include the magisters. but maybe not

 

They usually go for a setup that doubles as a 300 points list. Hospitaler box and Magister box are mutually exclusive for that.
(Seeing how Magisters are an autopick for 90% of MO lists, selling the box seperately makes a lot of economic sense).

Military Orders
──────────────────────────────────────────────────
10
JOAN OF ARC Lieutenant MULTI Rifle, Nanopulser / Pistol, DA CCW. (+1 | 50)
KNIGHT HOSPITALLER HMG / Pistol, AP CCW. (2 | 41)
KNIGHT HOSPITALLER Doctor (MediKit) Combi Rifle / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 37)
KNIGHT HOSPITALLER Combi Rifle / Pistol, AP CCW. (0 | 33)
KNIGHT HOSPITALLER Boarding Shotgun / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 33)
ORDER SERGEANT Heavy Rocket Launcher / Assault Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 15)
SPEC. SERGEANT Combi Rifle + AUXBOT_1 / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 17)
AUXBOT_1 Heavy Flamethrower / Electric Pulse. (- | 4)
SPEC. SERGEANT Hacker (Hacking Device) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 21)
BLACK FRIAR (Albedo, Biometric Visor L1) MULTI Rifle, Nanopulser, Drop Bears / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 28)
CRUSADER Boarding Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 25)
4 SWC | 300 Points
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The Crusader in the pic actually has the Multirifle+LFT layout so what is included in the box is 6 points off. I'm not sure if previous 300 points boxes were within the limit of 300 points, if they were me might see Crusaders and OS drop a few points with the November Update.

 

Excellent. A good mix. Both looking forward to and not looking forward to spending $$$ on this.