Hello, dear Infinity community! During today play I had some argumentation with my opponent. What happens when enemy enters into a mine trigger area, but mine can't go off because there is allied trooper inside its trigger area. According to rules which my opponent showed me - when attack happens and if an attack is a template which hits ally units also - attack automaticaly cancled and ammunition is lost if it was dissposable. I always played the way if mine has ally trooper in trigger area it doesn't explode. But my opponent has some point ... or not? So, what happens to mine? Does it stay, or goes off but do not hit anyone? Thank you!
The mine itself isn't disposable, it's the placement item that the trooper uses to place a mine on the table that's disposable. Please note how the rules on "disposable" has the ammunition being spent on "declaration of attack" and how mines never declare skills or attacks. Also, it's very very difficult to not be able to angle a mine's template so that you avoid the enemy trooper. One of few situations where this is possible is when the trigger area is placed close enough to a friendly trooper so the enemy can Move into base to base with said trooper on second short skill.
And it's the template that matters, not the trigger area. The text you're looking for is: A Mine never triggers if the Small Teardrop Template also affects an ally, even if that ally is Unconscious.
Yes...it's not dispossable it is one-use... I like how Infiity sometimes can be logical...same as weapons with trait "targetless" are not the same when it is told that attack do not require target (smoke grenaddes and mines for example).... Disposable was a bad word indeed... Thank you very much - that is what I was looking for...! Can I ask for one more clarfication? What happens if instead of ally there will be ally equimpent? (sniffer, other mine)
Do note however that if a friendly/neutal model enters the Template after it has triggered it can be cancelled. IE Trooper A has Civilian B in the Civevac state. As the first short movement Trooper A walks into the trigger area of a Mine. The mine Triggers. As the second Short movement skill Civilian B moves over the Template.
@ijw. I meant that in step 4 the mine Triggers and is removed and then in step 5 the Template is cancelled. Nothing retroactively untriggers the mine. Apparently you're saying on the secret Warcor forums that this is wrong?
Context: @daboarder is arguing in the Warcor forum that a trooper with the Synched Xenotech can set off Mines, and have those Mines' templates be nullified. Effectively making any trooper with a Synched Civvie the ultimate in minesweeping tools for no additional cost in Orders and without any downside. Yes, I think that the Mine isn't triggered. We already have to check retroactively, because the template isn't placed until the Mine has triggered, and we don't know if an ally is affected by the template until it's placed: Once on the game table, Mines must trigger when an enemy figure or Marker declares or executes an Order or ARO inside their Trigger Area. As a Direct Template Weapon, when a Mine triggers it places a Small Teardrop Template with Damage 13 and Shock Special Ammunition. The Small Teardrop Template must be placed so that it affects the enemy figure or Marker that triggered the Mine. A Mine never triggers if the Small Teardrop Template also affects an ally, even if that ally is Unconscious. So we're already retroactively cancelling the trigger after placing the template. The Civilian rules text about declaring Attacks then nullifying templates doesn't apply here, because Mines don't declare Attacks.
Template weapons and friendly and Neutral troopers It is not allowed to declare Attacks against friendly or Neutral troopers. So, if the player declares an Attackwith a Template weapon that affects a friendly or Neutral trooper, then that shot is considered null (But not any other shot of the same Burst with no Civilian or Neutral troopers affected by a Template). All those troops who were affected by the nullified shot can still declare ARO. In such a situation, if the Template weapon has the Expendable Trait one use is considered spent. And somehow, given those two pieces of information we are supposed to draw the conclusion that the mine is exempt from the rule concerning its expendable trait. Im not so much arguing for it as arguing that its not clear at all, and quite frankly feels more like a post fact justification because the civilian rules have been poorly thought out, especially their interaction as controllable game pieces
Canceling a mine triggering is not the same as canceling a declared skill. They have nothing to do with each other. @daboarder all of the rules you cited involve declaring an attack (aka declaring a skill with the attack label) which is something a mine isn't capable of doing. None of that is relevant.
Jesus wept. A deployed Mine does not have an Expendable/Disposable Trait, that applies to the trooper placing the Mines. And you're repeatedly ignoring what everyone is saying about the differences between declaring an attack with a template weapon, and how Mines work.
Fair enough. It would have been nice if someone had ruled this way at any point in the last 12 months when it's been discussed. But apparently it's not just PanO who can't have nice things. /frustrated
For what it's worth I just did a search for 'mine' plus 'civilian' on this and the old rules forum and I can only find one previous thread in the last couple of years and that wasn't about this situation. So it doesn't appear to have been heavily discussed.
