Do I really have to point out that: 1) it is better for the game overall when lore does match rules, 2) I just freakin' wrote you a way to achieve the exact same thing we got with Danavas, only also respecting established lore? If you wanna try with a decent argument for a change, try going with "but then NCA would get HD+!"* *Note: Simply keep the old profile for NCA, adding description "Export version" or "Allied version" and keep the HD+ exclusive to Aleph. See how it is done in case of Alguacil Hacker in QK, or how Scots Guards and Order Sargeants are separated into linkable and non-likable version, for example. As this is Aleph thread, I'll refrain from commenting in much depth. Lets just say I consider Ariadna situation an excellent example of why it is not good for the game when lore and rules do not coincide.
Yes, you pointed put how we could have a Deva profile with everything a Deva has and everything Danavas have and magically be as cheap as Danavas, which I doubt would be the case, and somebody else already pointed to you how Danavas fits the role of cheap hacker so Aleph can field their expensive pieces, but you just ignore every reason everybody gives to you (incidentally, that's why I'm ending this particular discussion here, it's quite draining having to read your incessant bitching about Danavas and Yadu on EVERY ALEPH THREAD, sorry) Let's just say everybody has their opinions, and yours isn't shared by anybody, so maybe it's time you accept it and stop trying to convince us ;-) that way we can all focus in demaning the release of sectorial rules already
Again, you appear to have far too narrow a view of 'established lore'. We know that ALEPH doesn't have infinite resources, or it would field nothing but Asura and Achilles-level Lhosts. The Danavas Lhost/profile is focused on hacking not direct combat, and is adjusted accordingly, both in background terms and in game terms. Deva Lhosts are explicitly tactical military Lhosts, so it would be inefficient to use one for an aspect that spends most of its time patrolling dataspheres.
I gave detailed points on how to create a Deva profile with point cost close to Danavas, having most of Danavas loadout (except Combi Rifle, which it doesn't need). Numbers I used are based of widely accepted point costs for all changes, except when I deliberately inflated costs (HD+ even with upgrades tend to cost same as HD). But it's okay. Math is hard. I don't think I ignored any arguments people mentioned. I did, however, explained why I think those arguments are incorrect in this case. Hey! You forgot my bitching about Asura HD+ MULTI Rifle not having Lt profile! On another note, just to be clear; my objections to Danavas and to Yadu are quite different. I do think Yadu are a perfectly Aleph-lore-friendly profile, as opposed to Danavas. I also think Danavas is otherwise a perfectly nice profile, while Yadu I think are too expensive or too meh for what they cost. However, I was convinced, in good part due to the forum discussion, that this is my personal preferences at work and other people might be interested in Yadu. Oh, I'm sorry that I don't conform to your proclaimed truth (TM). However, I'm afraid I'm not going to be able to comply with your command. Please enjoy pressing the "Ignore" button on my profile. I can understand your point, but... This means that tactical LHosts are left to make due with inferior equipment in high threat scenarios, while some cyber-security-guard is patrolling the dataspheres with bestest of the best HDs? Would it not make more sense to retrofit / produce new Deva LHosts with the best equipment then, and let the support hackers handle with limited equipment. It's like arming your Spetznaz with Rifles only while Line Kazaks carry AP HMGs. Also, for an LHost specialised for Hacking it is not that *specialised* for it. WIP 15 is nice, but only BTS 3, yet ARM 1 and PH11? (and yes, I actually count PH11 in favour of Danavas being an Aleph profile, but in this explanation it doesn't really fit :-/ )
ALEPH Aspects patrolling the dataspheres are exactly the Aspects that ALEPH would give the best hacking gear to. Why are you trying to dismiss the Danavas with cracks about them being just cyber-security-guards? Background-wise, they're pretty much the datasphere equivalent of a Dasyu. And yes, WIP15 BTS3 without NWI, higher than base BS or ARM is optimised for Hacking, because almost everything not related to hacking is not boosted. That's the definition of being optimised.
Hm. I re-read the lore again, and I honestly read it differently. It's all about how nasty they're gonna be to bad people. Why don't they have a KHD profile? *sigh* I could quibble about the word "optimised", but it really doesn't matter. Okay, they're optimised for hacking. Whooopity yay. Okay, you all win. Danavas is absolutely fantastic addition to Aleph. I'm done with all this.
Damnit, I should've gotten that right, lol. Fair point. I do think the Yadu (NCO HMG anyone?) will help a bit with the whole use of Asura LT I'm hoping for. Also, isn't "bad Nomad" a little redundant? :D
Whatever the lore, it's a bit sad that they created the danava instead of upgrading the HD deva who was close to useless before, and totally useless now.
In vanilla, maybe, but in OperationS they're pretty much guaranteed to have different Fireteam options.
Given what we've seen of Tunguska I'm guessing danavas will count as dakini for core. Or maybe similar to umbra/unidron but given what bostria was saying about Yadu I'm thinking not.
If we look at Tunguska then EVERYTHING should count as Dakinis for links. But we are not Nomads, so it won't.
Heh, maybe not everything. But danavas, Yadu and apsara are my guesses based on the units and bostrias comments.
And that kind of leaves Asura and deva. Deva may get a core or maybe Harris with Asura... but that doesn't feel like room for a deva hacker either unless something really special comes. All of which comes back to nemos point of deva hacker hasn't really got a place. I guess we will see in time.
While putting the devas in fireteams could be interesting for a variety of reasons, it feels a bit awkward with the devabot profiles - Strange design, I suppose? That said, I tend to agree that if they introduce a Haris profile, the Haris profile + spitfire + lieutenant (or decoy, with or without sensor) might be a nice setup, if a somewhat expensive one - But unless the Haris Deva comes with a tinbot A or B, I still don't really see why you'd put the hacker in there.
First of all, let's forget Devabots in fireteams. They've never done it, and it's a bad idea. So no Deva+Devabot profile is going to end up in a fireteam. Second, on Devas joining fireteams. They suffer the usual problem of their relatively high cost for what is effectively a cheerleader profile. Only profile I can see being useful in a Fireteam is MSV2+Spitfire, but I don't see it happening. If they get a Tinbot profile, that'll be basically just so you want to include them in Dakini links, no other purpose. And it's gonna be a pure model-push approach, because otherwise, Dakini with a Tinbot is much more in line with everything else they've been doing. Of course, given creativity and imagination they displayed for OperationS so far, you may be right and we're getting a Tinbot Deva. With Combi Rifle, of course.
So I know I said I'm gonna drop the Danavas thing, but I can't. Or better said, I got a new beef with Danavas. I re-read the description of Danavas. And lets say I accept IJW explanation for their appropriateness lore-wise. However, lets go back to Danavas lore: This is not a description of a HD+ unit, not even one with Maestro. This is a Killer Hacker unit, I mean, all this talk about catching and killing and erasing people from the net. HD+ is good all-round piece and it can fight other Hackers (particularly with Maestro), but it is not a hunter-killer device. Ignoring firewalls is particularly interesting plot twist. I mean, the talk about pursuing with extreme prejudice, what is stronger than a KHD... So now my beef is, why haven't they put out KHD Danavas?! A 19pts (based on Interventor difference) KHD with otherwise same equipment as now? Maybe Maestro or something as upgrade program? It would fit its own lore better, it would not edge out Deva since it wouldn't help with buffing, and it would be played simply because it is so cheap. Sigh.
