Well problem is that the west is very picky when it comes to "respect the others" ^^ <as a side note, no, not every culture is equal, some deserve only the cannon fire>
I'm just bemused that walking away from a game rather than having an argument is "violence", And that asking for some respect and consideration to be given to indigenous culture is "bigotry".
Read about what have had happened in central/east europe. It's a fucking miracle that people didn't just murder every single german after WWII.
I don't get the aggression. The intent of the OP seems informative and respectful. Like explaining how it may be considered rude not to remove your shoes when entering a house in some cultures. You don't have to be part of that culture to share that information. Sure, you likely have the right to choose not to, but some people will likely consider you rude if you do. Doubly so if you're aggressive about it and / or insulting to anybody who points it out, whether they belong to that culture or not. Just because you have a right to do something insensitive doesn't necessarily mean it's not insensitive and should have no negative social consequences. Like farting on the bus, it's something you can do, but polite people would on the whole rather you didn't, and probably would rather not be around you if you insist on it. But hey, knock yourself out if you want to.
How about I fuck with "your brothers" at no perila at all? You have about as much to do with them as I have with German Submariners for better or worse. They and the US Submariners, both these guys did their job for better or worse and died in a stupid war to further the agenda of their countries. Imagine people on both sides hadn't been dumb enough to blindly follow orders and better educated to a level where the war never happened. And I'm absolutely talking about both sides, the US sunk their fair share of innocent bystanders as well. Not to mention what ultimately "broke the back of Imperial Japan was two nukes.... yeah, good job getting on board with the bright sight of the story. Since I'm not a tool I'd rather not make every American soldier responsible for that. The flipside of that coin is that I also don't really care if someone's grandpa was fleeing from the war, guarding a concentration camp, sinking German cruise liners or dropping nukes on Japanese territory. Soldiers at the time were trained to do the shit they're told to without asking questions on both sides. Oh and while this war was definitely started by the Germans, I'm really looking forward how we'll be painting things neatly in black and white considering what happened the next 50 years after. From the way you're talking we wouldn't have much fun playing anyway no worries. You seem like exactly the sort of person that likes to call on good old Goodwin the second his cozy seven samurai list gets crushed effortlessly by that asshole minmaxing his double Swissguard. ... and what's up with that asshole label as if it were a bad thing? But hey, if that's the hill you picked to die on.... kudos mate, best of luck with the rest of your life. I'm just gonna do my thing over here.
Nationalism and blind obedience is bad and leads to atrocities. Who knew. Anyway: Teslarod, for someone who criticizes others for their whiteknighting you're sitting on a pretty high horse yourself. How about we all bring this discussion to less emotional, more constructive level? There's a lot of good, measured arguments on each side, not to mention the middle ground.
@eciu, you're obviously right, though I was referring to this particular piece of history mentioned by Section9 and Teslarod. Communism simply wasn't relevant to it. And the only reason this thread becomes a train wreck is that people have - as usual - problem with not treating every difference in opinion as some personal slight and starting with ad personam and other shitty tricks. So how about we discuss it like a mature people, or not at all?
I did not say anybody would be violent, I'm asking people not to be. My reason for saying this, is because the people in the USA who tell us about cultural appropriation sometimes use violence as a means to get their point across to people or name calling.
Another problem is that some people feel if you don't paint your figure the way they tell you, then you are a disrespectful asshole, you can't say things like that and think you are going to get a positive feed back, IMO: that's why this topic is train wreck now.
I think that is where the conversation turned sour. The perceived right or assumption to police some one else's artwork touched a nerve with a lot of folks, rightfully so.
I think it's a shame this discussion got so ugly. When I started getting into this game and learning about the factions, the thing about PanO that appealed to me above the other factions was its multiculturalism.
Didn't realize you were a fellow submariner! In the Bundesmarine, perhaps, but submariners are a community that crosses national borders. After all, the US and Soviets agreed to a 'SUBSUNK' protocol that scrambles every single submarine rescue ship and equipment in the ocean if any nation operating a submarine sends the 'SUBSUNK' message. I wear my Dolphins with pride. I qualified in Submarines on USS Georgia (SSBN 729)(GOLD). I have made 5 Strategic Deterrent Patrols, sleeping about 5 feet from a Trident missile tube and about 200 feet from a nuclear reactor. Dolphins are a symbol that 180 other men trust you with their life, that you know what to do in an emergency to keep the ship afloat and the crew alive. That tradition goes back over 110 years now. Surface sailors (skimmer pukes) hate it, but the Submarine Fleet is a select elite, who prove that every day.
tbh, I don't see why these cultures in the future would be so protective of their identity anymore. Near all of them have embraced the same technology and rights and privileges in the same society. it seems like everyone is more or less the same, just choosing to embrace different ancestry.
Can we get some clarification: is there anyone in this thread of Maori or pacific islander decent? Also Im still waiting for some clarification on what % of genetic makeup qualifies someone to identify as belonging to these ethnic groups. You cant insist that being tattooed in such a way would be culturally insensitive without defining the scope of the ethnic group.
Except, to the best of my memory, that never happened. I believe the discussion was that the Maori hold this tradition to be sacred, and it would be a good idea to be respectful of that idea. Then claims were made to paint one's own figures 'anyway I damn well please, and don't tell me what to do!' The response generaly was 'that's on you, but if you behave in a disrespectful manner, I will choose not to game with you.' I don't remember at any point anyone trying to tell someone else they are not allowed to paint their figures a certain way. They were just pointing out it could be considered rude to paint figures a certain way. There has even been some intelligent discussion about what might actually be considered offense. Periodically followed up by more ranting about 'don't tell me what to do!' Personally I blame the rampant identity politics lately. There are so many groups claiming offense and persecution lately, and more than a few of them are based on ridiculous premise. I think some people have hit their saturation point, and now anytime someone requests they modify their behavior out of respect for others, they tend to loose their cool very quickly. I myself have been guilty of this, I get so tired of everyone being a victim. But I don't think this is one of those times.
