I'm sure how to take this, but 1) I'm now a white person, So! I'm not sure what you mean about the whiteknight asshattery, and 2) I think people have a right to paint their figures the way they want to, I don't understand why other people are tying to force other people, to paint their figures the way they want to, I understand that one should respect someone's culture, I'm with you all on that, but if someone can paint or don't want to paint a figure a certain way, then who I'm I to tell him or her anything different. Also, Yes! I'm going to fight the greater cause. because I lost family to the KKK and I my self was attacked by people of the whitenight, This is why I will fight for the right of all people, I'm sorry for getting of topic but I feel I was slighted with this statement, If it's not? then I will be the first to apologize.
@andre61 He’s using the internet definition of a white knight white knight noun noun: white knight; plural noun: white knights a person or thing that comes to someone's aid. a person or company making an acceptable counter-offer for a company facing a hostile takeover bid. "the company was sold off to a white knight to fend off a hostile raider"
@andre61 @deep-green-x got it a bit wrong shamelessly stolen from Urban Dictionary: White Knight A person with low self esteem who combats this with a unwavering need to aid others who may or may not need it. They usually have very isolated personal lives as they are very judgmental of others, surrounding themselves only with those who feed their desire to help and feel as a savior. Most commonly sighted in young men in regards to women, this is only a lesser form as it is usually only temporary, fading with life experience. More serious cases occur in correlation with chronic self esteem problems where the person needs to maintain a high view of themselves through self righteous acts of kindness. These people enjoy surrounding themselves with troubled individuals, who form a farm which is harvested for what they use as pseudo self esteem. ----- I'm strictly against being offended on behalf of someone else concerning the minor things in life. No one has any intention to mock Maori culture, I simply can't be bothered to adhere to someone else's standars just because he thinks I should. Internet strangers complaining about someone else painting tatoos on metal minis with fair skin is clearly within "don't care, sod off mate" territory. Especially when there are a million stupid but perfectly reasonable explanations you could pull out of a hat to make the whole thing even dumber to complain about. Fact is, the usual whiteknight, will assume you're violating Maroi culture and will give you shit for it before he bothers to ask for a reasonable explanation. Maybe the guy is supposed to be an albino/honorary Maori/insensitive member of the Infinity universe. Maybe you just don't give a damn about Maori culture and can't be conviced you can't paint your damn metal minis however the heck you want. Having the information about Tā Moko out there isn't a bad thing. However, the judgy circlejerc of "muh political correctness" that comes along with it can go right back to Facebook, Reddit or wherever it came from.
"Hi guys since varuna will be out here are some guides and historical background about Maori tattoos to whoever might want to know." Was anything else beyond that needed?
I just remembered something: Did you know that the Captain of the battlecruiser HMS New Zealand wore a Maori pendant presented to him by the country his ship was named after into battle? Quite a badass way to show respect to the Maori.
I wanted to let you know that I had no idea these existed, and you've changed my life with the knowledge.
Yes. And I'm a little disappointed that you would "moderator voice" what is clearly a personal opinion and not related to the content of the discussion. Complaining about what people do a world away is, in most cases, solved ahead of time by putting a tiny bit of effort into education and sharing the cultural significance and sensitivity of specific issues. But if you "just don't give a damn about Maori culture" and have chosen to use Tā Moko anyway then that's more of an issue, and if it's happening on the table in front of me then I am going to make choices based on that lack of respect. Sharing the info about Tā Moko without importing the Mana of the taonga, and the respect it deserves as a result, would be a failure on my part. As would just brushing off the potential for real violation of the tapu by saying "naah, it's all cool, do whatever you want". That is not an accurate reflection of the value of Tā Moko to and within Maori culture and would communicate a false message. In short, if you want to be an asshole about all of this and ignore the fact that Tā Moko are a taonga to the Maori people then you are choosing to be deliberately offensive and deserve the response that may result. But if you are engaging with the culture out of respect and from a place of sensitivity then it is fair to say that there's a lot of latitude for different expressions.
Well, the US tribes do have a % required for membership, and apparently so do the Maori. You're right that someone 1/8 Maori (one Maori grandparent) could be pretty pale (I'm pretty sure I've seen a blonde girl with legit chin Ta Moko). Those people make me laugh (especially since I can read a few kanji). Though there was the girl who went into the tattoo shop and asked the guy for the kanji for "stuck-up white bitch"... When he picked up his chin from the floor, he did ask if she was absolutely sure, then he really started laughing when she said yes. Those micron pens I mentioned make it easier. They do take some practice, so buying a box of GW fantasty or Bolt Action plastics would help. Use the finest pen, the 0.2mm. Still takes a lot of practice, but it's easier than trying to do it with a paintbrush! You're welcome! Those pens also come in quite a few colors (but sadly not white, you need to buy a ball-point gel pen for white). I have that set I linked and a couple green micron pens, plus a white gel pen. You can actually get quite a number of different pens, and in different sizes. @AdmiralJCJF : Are there any Kiwi military kirituhi? I know the Kiwis in general have really adopted a lot of Maori things (not least of which is the haka, even NZPost has their own haka!), was wondering if there was military-tolerated, or even -approved, ink. I figured a unit kirituhi would be a bit more in-character to the written fluff for the Croc Men than actual Ta Moko.
@AdmiralJCJF this honestly boils down to one thing. Are you yourself a Maori native, entitled to be offended? If you're not you're welcome to lend your support if one shows up, but it ain't your war to start. Pretty sure most of them are cool about that stuff and don't give a damn. For some context I'm German and know plenty Jews. None of them has ever given me shit for questionable jokes or you know... simply being German. They're all pretty chill. They also were interested in my families history in WW2 times and beyond and how it affected us, simply out of curiousity. I've however met plenty Americans who like to invoke Godwin's law the second their argumentation fails them in a discussion. Blaming my ancestry for their own lack of wit. Very impressive, wow that showed me. So, yeah sod right of with your bullshit mate, it's not your business. Never understood that "entitled to respect" bullshit either. That's an archaic concept. Respect should either be given voluntarily or earned by your acts. You're not entitled to shit by default. ... agree to disagree? /edit: Out of curiosity - what should happen to someone who isn't Maori and somehow got a tatoo "he shouldn't have"? Assuming he didn't know better or even if he did. Does he have to apologize all the time? Should he get the Sons of Anarchy treatment or do you simply demand he gets it removed? I wonder what the proper course of action would be there.
What was the Maori take on Ben Kingsley wearing ta moko in "Ender's Game", out of curiosity? Sure, his character is supposed to be part Maori (The character's father was Maori), but the actor plainly isn't (He's Half Indian). I suppose many audiences wouldn't know the difference unless it was pointed out to them. . He did play Gandhi, and he won the best actor oscar for it but EVEN AS A Half-Indian actor he copped no small amount of flak back in the 80s over "whitewashing" history and certain roles (not to mention the religious backlash endemic to the region (and it was banned in Pakistan for "unsympathetic" treatment of several support characters) for example. [Ben Kingsley was born In the UK to an English mother and Kenyan born father (with Gujurati Heritage) and was still seen as "too English" to play Gandhi, who is still revered by many Hindu.] So even Attenborough wasn't immune to the "whitewashing" tag, even if that even has been mostly forgotten about in the west.
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The "blood quota" question is a fraught one for Maori, but the short answer is that there is no official "minimum blood requirement" and that engagement with the culture is the most important element. There are some pretty good discussions about it here, if you are interested: https://e-tangata.co.nz/identity/so-you-think-youre-maori/ This one is pretty open and lighthearted: https://thespinoff.co.nz/atea/02-03-2018/cheat-sheet-how-to-tell-if-youre-maori/ While Ta Moko is accepted in the New Zealand military, as I understand it other visible tattoos are not permitted under the current code. https://www.stuff.co.nz/life-style/88210685/Navy-approves-first-full-facial-moko No, I don't agree that it's ok for you to be insensitive or for people to appropriate the indigenous culture of my nation. But unless you and I end up in a room at some point I doubt much is going to come of it. Generally speaking it's very rare for people to get facial tattoos at all, let alone specifically Ta Moko, so it doesn't come up often. I do know of instances of individuals who were barred from entry onto Marae and/or excluded from cultural/social events so there can be some consequences. Personally? I just wouldn't have anything to do with anyone who made that kind of choice, it's been very simple excluding people with racist ideas or views in the past and I don't see any reason why that would be different here. The character is Maori, which makes it just fine. That's the point.
So... where does the issue of painting miniature future soldiers come into play if we can plausibly explain a model looking like an ethnic: Maori, sub-Saharan-type black, Nordic-type white, Latino, Native American and Japanese with genuine ta moko since it's definitely possible he's culturally Maori and follows the traditions and customs of his parents and grandparents? Or that the ethnic Maori had to mix with other ethnicities to avoid extinction of their people because of some disaster that happened to NZ (do we know anything about it in the unit fluff?), and their traditions adapted? I mean, 175 years is what, 8 generations? 9? Lots of time for ethnic and cultural mixing there. *(any racial/ethnic terms used are intended as purely descriptive and any possible slurs used are accidental)
I don't understand why it's such a difficult thing to ask people to be sensitive to another culture's norms.
One thing that is being at least partially elided in the whole conversation is the fact that the Croc Men and the division they descend aren’t and weren’t exclusively Māori, but rather drawn from all of the islands and different traditions. Indeed, the fluff itself, it’s noted that the Croc Men keep the traditions of the Polynesian Division our of respect to those who died at Ravensbrucke. It doesn’t seem out of line for that to be a plausible reason for the admingling of those different cultural traditions.
