Just because other things are miscosted doesn't mean this isn't. Bolts are bloated and overpriced, whether because individual skills have the wrong costs or that the unit was overall poorly designed is a bit moot. Enough units with SMGs have an obvious price/utility discontinuity vs. their other weapon options that it's obvious where the fault lies.
I don't believe it is, as I have explained twice its cost is likely higher than it appears thanks to rounding in other stat increases and the discount threshold of religious being reached. I think there is a good argument for skills that allow for forward deployment of any sort to be more expensive on troopers with SMGs (or vice versa, it really doesn't matter), and an even better argument for SMGs to never be the sole or principal weapon of any trooper that can form part of a fireteam.
Why? The interaction between having Infiltration, FO, or AD and a submachine gun makes it more powerful. Synergistic effects shouldn't be "free."
Some benefit from it dramatically more than others, even if a deployment skill is always a net plus. If you want to use a BSG, you get more mileage out of being a drop troop. You're likely not using it without spending orders to reposition if you don't have deployment skills. An HMG or MSR, however, you can use your first order with no deployment skills pretty frequently. This is basic stuff, I'm honestly surprised if you aren't being facetious here.
I wasn't. Sorry, I'm retarded. Just to check you want them to smudge costs on any troops with a deployment skill based on their weapon? So like Hellcat BSG should go up a few points.
Not necessarily, but it should probably cost more relative to the Hellcat HMG than it does now. Boarding Shotgun is more synergistic with AD than an HMG is.
I wouldn't say it is more synergistic. You can cause a lot of damage with the HMG, but it has a different roll then the BSG one.
I think the synergy argument goes a little further than just deployment skills. The SMG isn't somehting anyone complains about on a Blackjack, as @loricus says, or paired with a HRL, when its cost is in addition to several other weapons. When the SMG is the primary weapon of a profile and clearly intended to just keep costs down or the profile is built to negate the disadvantages of the SMG without paying the equivalent of full combi (for example) price despite being arguably better than a combi it seems unbalanced. This is the reason why I think it should never be on a fireteam profile, the primary role in the team is to provide the bonuses to the leader, and across 4 troops a 5 point discount over combi (or 4 over BSG) equates to an easy extra order in the list thanks to 16-20 points being freed up.
There are two groups of people here; 1) "SMGs are clearly underpointed and this is real bad." 2) "Troops with SMG profiles don't cause any wider balance issues in the wider game though." SMGs arguably are underpointed but that doesn't mean that there's a problem unless the game has been notably affected and I don't think it has? If you made a "top ten nightmare troops to face" would any of them have SMGs?
Nightmare troops get's too far. But when I look at puppet master (without puppet) or Marry Problems these Profiles are way to cheep for what they do. Cause Infinity isn't only a list who wins games, so I can't say, if the SMG is a problem. What I would say is, that the SMG would be played without the Special Ammunition and same costs too. PS: My second faction will be Nomads
Mary Problems is good but also pretty reasonable. There are more dangerous killer hackers out there, in fact there are more dangerous killer hackers in the same Sectoral as her. She gets reasonably decent shooty skills to go with being a pretty great hacker and she brings her own support, which is why she's worth taking over a 20pt Interventor KHD, or as a cheaper alternative to a 36pt Spektr AHD. She literally sits between them and does sort of the same job as both but slightly less effectively, and she'd be more effective if she had a combi (because she could actively shoot at longer effective range and get more out of that ODD), and if she had a SMG and cost 1-2pts more would it really make a difference? Nah. The Puppetmaster is also a perfectly reasonable profile. They're both good but neither of them are overpowered. Has anyone's meta been swept by the sudden terrifying presence of these troops? No.
Maybe they would, but they can't, so it is a moot point. You could build some stupidly efficient troops if you were left to your own devices, however this is not something you can do, for that very reason. Let's not assess the game based on what you theoretically could do within the system.
Don't worry, next Nomad sectorial will feature weaponless mooks able to form unlimited core fireteams with any other unit for 1 point apiece. And saying Mary Problems is "reasonable as a killer hacker" utterly ignores all the other shit she has going for her that makes her bloated as hell at a ridiculous price like, you know, the AHD, Zapper, ODD, AD, and SMG. She is only lacking a mono weapon, but that's not optimization, so we save them for Yu Jing. Edit: lol, forgot pitcher, C+ and hyperdinamics just for the giggles. All of that for 30 points, and not a single useless or non sinergetic skill. Meanwhile, a AHD Guilang is 31... balanced (and this is using one of the best skirmishers in the game as comparison)
The Puppetmaster without puppets is nothing than a order monkey and his abilaty (I don't talk about the HD, you will ohnly take the hacker, if you havent one and need on) And I wouldn't made the SMG more expensive, I would cut the special ammo types, cause this hurts HI as well as one wound models. But üerhaps you are wright and the problem isn't SMG but the Combi rifle, who ist too expensive.
