It does seem to be too cheap as the ultra-light MULTI weapon that it functionally is (considering MULTI is a 4 point upgrade over the basic weapon). So, drop the suppressive fire from the SMG, it still retains it's active potency but isn't as reactively useful. Or, price it as a MULTI pistol with DAM 11 B 3 (so ~5 points). Assault pistols still hit harder with higher burst, but are less versatile (drop off in effect against ARM 6+, just as good vs. ARM 4-5, better vs. ARM 3 or less).
What do you want proof of? They they intentionally keep some things too cheap? I'm saying SMG is off the power curve (assuming a Combi or maybe HMG standard) but that it was probably intentional, so asking for a nerf should be from the perspective "this is making bad units" not "this is too cheap". The game isn't balanced around every equipment and skill having a fairly comparable value. I don't understand which part of that you're disagreeing with.
That's not technically correct. Some skills and equipment have values that vary with stats, some have fixed value regardless of the profile they're on. All weapons have fixed (and therefore comparable) values, with the exception of Chain Rifles (and probably Chain Colts, but the maths is hard on them), you can clearly see vastly different profiles consistently paying the same points for the same weapons.
True, but it's still a pistol in both languages :) This is not the argument you come across as presenting when you take the opposite stance to the argument that the equipment is too cheap and therefore is producing units that are too strong relative to their investment. And as Cartographer notes, the game is technically balanced around each skill and piece of equipment having a relatively fair value. I wouldn't mind having Zhanshi get SMG instead of Combi Rifle. Would mean they'd finally be better geared and trained for close quarters combat like they are described as being...
SMG is good on units with 'bad' skill selection, so something that would be kinda too expensive because of extra fat that serves no too much purpose, it lowers cost of unit and it becomes more, maybe not auto pick, but also not auto discard profile. Problems appear when it's put already good profiles that are very good and auto pick even when they are more expensive because of rifle/combi. For example take Chasseur, for 20pts it's an awesome unit, and comes with rifle/LFT. Never played game without one I think. Give him SMG, he becomes even better than with rifle, and yet, becomes even more cheaper, what's not to like?
They have a fixed cost but the costs are not always intended to be fair. I don't see how you could possibly think Fat2 was expected to be weaker than Bioimmunity.
Who ever said some of us arguing that SMG is too cheap and producing too effective models do not also have problems with the likes of Fat2?
Do you think they mistakenly thought 1 point was a fair cost, or that they intentionally left it too low?
I think it's intentional, and I don't agree with it. By the by, on regular Khawarij it's free (or rounded down to 0)
Khawarijs have a CC of 20, which looks to be an incomplete jump, so is an incomplete integer. Thanks to Securitate we can deduce that the WIP 13 to 14 bump isn't a whole integer either. The Khawarijs also have religulous (oh yes, 'cus it is!) which seems to grant a discount once a certain stat threshold is reached rather than costing anything. All together, it's entirely believable that Fat2 costs more than Bioimmunity despite only looking like 1 point if you just weapon swap to the spitfire.
If you weapon swap to the Spitfire and account for the lost Grenade as well, you're looking at specifically so low cost that it gets rounded down to 0. But that's off topic, so let's go back to jousting about the SMG :p (Small edit: Grenades on Prowler is more than 1 point and gets rounded to or is 2 points when trading to the Spitfire, Grenades on Intruder is less than 1 point and gets rounded down to or is 0 points when trading to the Hacking Device, so on the assumption that Khawarij has the grenade that's shipped in retail packaging rather than Intruders' refurbished grenades, then Fat2 costs roughly 1 point.)
Spitfire is 6 points more than a Combi/Rifle+LSG. Khawarij spitfire is 5 points more than Rifle+LSG, grenade profile, so you could conclude that grenades cost 1 and Fat2 was free. But it's pretty clear that grenades cost more than 1 point when you look across other troops, but no more than 2. I'm saying that the rounding that happens in CC 20, since it's about 2 and a third points over an "assumed base CC value", and in WIP 14, since it's 3 points for everyone other than Securitate, who only pay 2, probably combine with the partial points on grenades (and quite possibly the religious discount) to hide the full cost of Fat2.
And my suggestion that it be nerfed is from the perspective of "It was a poorly thought-out plan to make the SMG as overpowered as it is."
I was never "owned" by the Ryuken. It was actually a team tournament where my teammate, playing JSA, did that to an enemy O-Yoroi. But I complained about SMGs before JSA, mostly on Aleph units that I felt were undercosted for the punch/utility they had. And the Bashi Bazouk, of course.
Hand-on heart, for me it's Wu Ming SMG that's a bit too cost effective for me. It's not the most useful, but absolutely the most cost effective. It's the one trooper with SMG I consistently run into (i.e. my own trooper) Seems to be exactly 2 everywhere it can be evaluated directly, except for on the Intruder who doesn't seem to pay for their Grenade (or there's an irregularity on the Hack Device cost). Figures I started looking at the exception unit... Damned this game has a lot of exceptions in costs for supposedly not having any hand-adjustments.
So by implication, the same profile but with a combi would be even *less* useful for the points. Do you see the problem here?
