Well, I'm glad I put my phone down for a day. The conversation got unfun and needlessly confrontational. Im not here for that. Im glad i got to see others thoughts on benefits and distractions of orca - I can't wait to try new things (after undone banging my head against the idea of 10-order MAF). We're all (i think) pretty experienced players here and the most obvious thing here is that infinity is effing huge and analysing every possible ORC vs. <whatever> is an exercise in futility. Daboarder and I seem to have different luck, skill, ability, <insertwordthatsatisfiesyourfeelingshere> than many others. I hope this inspires people to give the ORCs a few more tries - if for any reason then to have fun. I hope varuna - as an apparent special police-ish force - will have heaps of nonlethal stuff. Flash/stun, adhl etc. I don't think pano needs a big HI. Maybe another s6 tag. Maybe even an s5 tag! Super compact and fast. Wasn't there some hoverbike idea rumor that circulated? Silver surfer tag lol
Based on the amount of shock weapons in Varuna this doesn't seem to be the case. VIID seems to me to be the last option force meaning they aren't going in for an arrest. They're going in and bringing their targets out in body bags.
They're less "police", as in looking to make an arrest, more "police" like GSG9/GIGN/DICI/BPOE, kill first, ask questions never.
These are the guys who turn up when the usual asking of "Sir, have you considered not being a bell end? " hasn't worked (note that it is quite possible to ask this question with a taser or pepper spray).
We've definitely seen the Varuna lore evolve. Non-lethal police force definitely fit the bill one upon a time... I even speculated about them getting new platforms for Adhesive ammo. Now though, they're out for blood. Part of this is probably a reflection of the lore getting a bit more desperate and nasty. I wouldn't object to a PanO S5, though I think another Stingray is much more likely. I wonder a bit about a Guard unit... Honestly I'm not sure that Varuna needs it. I like the feel of a set of universally elite, highly mobile operators functioning as a team, rather than a centerpiece elite Guard unit. Even the Cutter, the most high-end unit available to PanO, still feels like part of a unit when he's working in tandem with Kamau. The theme of elite team cohesion feels very prominent in Varuna. At this point, I'm very curious who is going to get the better deal on their AD unit... Varuna or IA. We already know the Echo Bravo is innovative because of its weapon design, and that the IA choice is innovative due to being Heavy Infantry.
Its more or less the difference between IA and VIID, in most units one gets same old but with 2 W and the second gets all the bell´s and whistles.
Honestly 2W ARM3-4 is really interesting for a drop troop, even with conventional weapons. I can't tell you how many times my Crusader Brethren or Garuda has been stopped with an unfortunate crit or just a plain old whiffed roll and failed save. The ability to keep on trucking even after eating a crit is pretty serious on drop troops. This isn't even discussing DTWs, which all current drop troops have to avoid like the plague. HI drop troops can walk straight into a chain rifle if needed and potentially even shrug it off.
Varuna being counter terrorism and all I don't expect much non leathal stuff besides MULTI Stunn firemode. Anti Terror Military Police strikes me as the 'eliminate with extreme predjudice' kind of organisation. Shoot first, ask questions if someone survives. Or go for a Cube extract. It's not like you can't bring the guy in for questioning post mortem.
Im a fan of AD Raul because of his NWI, so i get what you are saying, its just that i dont expect this guy to get nothing extra apart from that, even mimetism puts him to close to the tiger soldier. Well, he has D-charge.... so there is that
I fully expect a vanilla as possible BS12-13 ARM3 PHY13 W2 budget priced HI AD guy. They'll give him shotgun/SMG options as well as a Red fury or Spitfire and he'll be ~36 points. no frills, just a tough AD gunfighter. *EDIT - they'll give him Frenzy
Especially when it's the evolution of the team where the leader of the Hexahedron got her start... they're less police, more SOCOM.
I think this last part is more of a factor than anything else. The RPG material and Aristeia! make it clear that we are far too modernist in our thinking about the Human Sphere
To be fair as well, IRL Police here haven’t been trying to talk down active shooters for a bit (granted this was from a first responder seminar about possible MCI’s in public setting from like 10 years ago). And these guys deal with active shooters in submersible habitats.....I think taking them in isn’t really an option.
Just need to make more people to read Eclipse Phase. Death is the least of your worries... The evolution of dealing with terrorists. After Munich it was seen that negotiation and giving in to demands was not going to cut it anymore when the goals of the terrorists were already to kill the hostages. The Lufthansa Flight 181 and the Iran Embassy Siege then showed what a Special Forces teams were capable of when handling a hostage situation. Then the evolution of the terrorists turned from hostage situations to cause as much destruction as possible. At that point there is no negotiation. There is only bullets being delivered into soft tissue. VIID don't strike me as a police force much like IS isn't a police force. They seem to have more in common with the SAS/SOCOM/Name any counter-terrorist force in the modern world. They don't do police actions. They go in when the police can't handle a situation or all the other options have failed. Damn it, now I want to play Varuna :P
All of that makes sense and I agree. Still, sometimes you need a way to enter a room that doesnt involve fragging the hostages inside.
