I think that this is a stretch. Considering that the only time lore mentions biological enginering is with Antipode Controler, and it is not something that Devil Dogs uses, for all we know k-9 antipodes might chose to follow Devil Dog as their alphas. Even aforementioned biological enginnering doesn't seem to be that much of atrocity considering that this actually allows antipodes to get domesticated. To a degree that they are capable of with help of science. Alternative is basically extinction because they pose too much of a threat to human civilization. They are basically trying to make antipodes into their pets, which is hardly immoral thing to do considering the alternative and the fact the antipodes proved themselves as an active threat to entire civilization. Can you elaborate? Is it the second ship that was supposed to land on Dawn?
The Aurora-Dawn was to be the second colony ship sent after the Ariadna. As it was passing through the wormhole, the Tohaa altered it so it crashed onto Paradiso instead. Once on that planet, the Tohaa gene-screwed the survivors and created several horrible things we have yet to see explicitly, but have been implied to exist.
It sounds like shit would hit the fan if Human Sphere was to find out about it. Especially Ariadnas would not be pleased to find out what happened to their reinforcement.
Yeaah, forgot about Tohaa, you are right on that account. Eh. I must admit I don't remember when they did this ( I thought it was a long rebellious planet they blew up?), but fair enough in this case. It is considered a big bubu because it's PanO. I doubt it would be given single raised eyebrow in Tunguska or rest of Nomad Nation. Yeah, this is pretty fucked up, but then, I don't see how Nomad society would function at anything except same level given all the description we are given. Can't work in Corregidor? Hope you enjoy cold, hard space. You entered a Bakunin module without violent coercion? Well, no business of ours what goes on the inside. I imagine Tunguska penal code is much like a menu at a restaurant, with clear price for everything. Got cash, we got your back! :) Meh. If we're talking war, these aren't even worth the mention. Sorry, but no, no, and no. Lore is clear these are intelligent animals, at the very least the level of current apes (with tribes and tools). Just because they fight against invaders doesn't excuse Ariadna for trying to eradicate or domesticate them. You sound like a 19th century colonialist talking about Africa or Asia here. -.-
Does anybody really think there is "good" faction? All faction are grey, with some are darker and some are lighter. It's an mirror of our world, where good and evil is defined on which end of the gun you are standing. Are you defending yourself or are you attacked? PanO is a crowd of fanatics. Aleph is a control addicted psychopath. Nomads are Criminals. Haqqislam doesn't give people of another religions the same rights Tohaa use the humans against CA ... They are all imperfect!
Yes. Still think that there is a difference between bunch of people that just found themselves on the land without a way of going back home and being attacked by a certain species to colonization period where people were fully aware of that interfering into developed civilisations or tribes. I might undervalue Antipodes advancement but facts are they are the ones that attacked first. And to say that it does not matter because it was long time ago or that they were fighting for survival themselves is not really enough to call Ariadnians bad people because of it. Surely no one considers fighting with CA a bad deed, because we all know understand that this is a threat for Human Sphere. Just like Antipodes are threat for Dawners. And to top it all of - if what Brother Smoke is saying is what actually happened it's hard to blame them for fighting a weapon that was designated to destroy them. Even if that very weapons have feeling on it's own. And even than they actually try to incorporate into their civilisation in some shape of form. You can ofcourse find some paralles to historical colonialism but to present it as something equal? No, no, no.
Imagine if they found out the antipodes were created by the Tohaa to exterminate them, that would be awkward at the next diplomatic meeting
Instead of feeling sorry for me in your entitlement how about you actually harness your deep empathy and present me an actually evidence of Ariadnians being bad guys at any point. Other than being pretty adament about own survival.
An enslaved AI which cannot act outside of its constricted programming, for the safety of humanity... So I would say Aleph is not morally competent, so to say, to be judged ;) The Triumvirate, yeah, but I was making broad strokes by "faction" as general Assassination is not legal while not at war (and inside one, it depends to a "is your government backing your actions up?"), and I doubt you can declare war on individuals... Once as demonstration to the Morat, several times while battling Nemesis (the "daughter" AI the EI created, which lead to a civil war), and it's been mentioned that the CA does that to species that do not surrender when demanded to (thus my caveat of "and you are useless to the EI's objectives").
Aleph. Aleph is your friend. Aleph is here to guide humanity to a better tomorrow. Join with aleph and see the future.
They are not an intelligent species though, not any more than a literal ape, and apes are not exactly taken into consideration when it comes to human survival, just ask Harambe.
Survival on all costs isn't good. And there can't be in general a good faction/organization/what else, because there will be always only people. People could be good or evil, but good and evil depends on your ethical values.
And I don't recall ever saying that survival is an act of goodness on it's own. Only that it does not make them evil. That is actually a concept that is pretty widely recognized by most realistical philosophies - doing things that sole reason is to assure your own survival can rarely by judged as an act of evilnes or goodness. Fact of the matter is that in the setting where all factions have their own corpses in the closet it's difficult to plainly point out what Ariadna has done wrong in its existance. They are definitely the most good out of all factions. Having this discussion with nomen omen somewhat non-constructive attitude that good and evil depends on one's moral value is a no-go. We can obviously reply with that to almost anything that is being said in the thread and despite that it might to be correct answer on somewhat abstract level of thought it is non-productive for the discussion at hand. It should be pretty obvious for everyone participating(and it seems it is for most of us) but it clearly wasn't. Where can I read on that?
For one thing, the current rules of war have a lot of leftovers from romantic notions of war and combat, mixed up with various humanitarian causes. It does not make it any less a war action. I am, in fact, judging them by our standards since they developed from our frame of reference and presumably have at least our understanding of ethical concepts. It is the exact opposite of judging Romans by our standards - at best, it's Romans judging us and finding us failing. Admittedly, maybe they somehow developed their ethical ideas into something else that makes it acceptable, but - there is no indication of this in lore. If anything, lore supports that they have roughly our understanding and acceptance of ethics. And Nomads are individualistic enough to be perfectly fine with this kind of thing. Also, just because it is legal, does not make it ethical. Except they are intelligent. You can pretend all you want. And yes, humans tend to be bastards, but we are discussing ethics here.
OK, then explain me, why they fought on Kurage? They fought a war without need. Only why it isn't written by CB, it doesn't mean they didn't do bad things. And do you think the people of Ariadna wouldn't survive without their state. The concept of surviving isn't good or evil can only be applied to people, not to organizations or countries.
Ariadna fought at Kurage because it belongs to Ariadna. The whole planet of Dawn belongs to Ariadna. Any opportunity to assert that must be taken.
No, Ariadna belongs the mainland due to the O12 contract. And what you are talking is aggressive defense, what didn't well in the past.
So that's what you consider an act of evil? That they didn't really abide to a treaty relating to their own and only planet on signing which they had no influence? Ridicolous. Lay down and don't scream when it hurts - only than we will call you not-evil at best.
For ariadna, the planet is there's. The "treaty" giving them the mainland is like the USA giving the native Indians their reservations.
