I'm not entirely convinced the Tiger is going to be in IA considering the Liu Xing The point was that the Liu Xing az presented atm is a Zuyong with AD, and that means a Crusader Brethren with 2 wounds for an ungodly amount of points, and that's not very hot. Hopefully the green shoulders indicate Mimetism at least.
Funny as in PanO's forums people are speculating Echo Bravo to be 1W 40pts AD trooper (and they like it) ;) Forums are a strange place.
I'm not sure what gear they expect Echo Bravo to have, but there's a lot of skills and equipment that could make a 1w AD be good aat 40pts
Okay, I went through the forum post to find out what people have been saying about EB being 40 points. I think Teslarod is both overestimating the price of MSV and overestimating Yu Jing associating Ko Dali with MSV2 and AD. I have honestly never read anyone mentioning her MSV2 outside of CA context. MSV2 AD MI would be kinda cool and on theme for Pan-O. It's an aside though. Didn't think it valuable enough to barge in on the Pan-O forums for that comment.
I think I’d be fine with this troop not having a specialist and only able to do D-Charge missions. He’d be a bit like a heavy Rasyat. An Engineer would be cool though. The CCW in the dossier might be just for show but I’m hoping for MA Level 1.
I don't think anyone is expecting Echo Bravo to be 40 points. At most, somewhere in the mid 30s if it has MSV 2. Otherwise, it will be much cheaper. I doubt anyone on the Pano's forums would be ok with a 1w 40 point AD troop. So I have no idea where you got that from. Edit: One person mention an MSV 3 Echo Bravo for 40 points but yeah, thats a pipe dream. NO way Pano is getting another MSV 3 unit. And it would be extremely questionable if it was worth the cost.
My pipe dream is that it will have a coordinated drop like kodali had in n2. Beyond that I think it will probably be ph13 which would put it as the best in an ad troop. The multirifle and the d charges are what's gonna separate it from the tiger. Giving it more of a big threat neutralizer vibe.
Agreed, I think the expectation for Echo Bravo is in the 30s, and that's the upper end... Red Fury + MSV2. The Heavy Infantry AD concept actually presents some challenges. You want to keep the profile cheap and lean enough to be "disposable", since AD units run into all kinds of problems. But you still need enough punch and effect to justify the danger of being hacked. Mimetism is always solid, but that combination feels far too much like "Yu Jing has a Tiger, and now Yu Jing has a 2 Wound Tiger." AD5 is a decent fit, since it conveys an elite feel, and means the new AD would be less at the mercy of bad dice. Something like Dogged would be a very good fit... So you're not just getting a 2 Wound model, but effectively getting 3 Wounds. That would allow the profile to stay fairly minimal in terms of cost, with not too many points paid for extraneous abilities and wargear, but would let the HI maximize the shock value in the turn it comes in. It's pretty distinct from the Tiger too. Effective 3 Wounds is a huge deal, and gives it something unique over the Gao Tarsos, Fraacta, etc.
2 W + dogged would make the Liu Xing very expensive. I'd prefer just basic 2w, arm 3, 4-4 move HI profile. Nothing fancy, keep the cost down in an already expensive faction.
I mean... one cool thing for this would be perhaps the first level of Full Auto maybe possibly? Since currently only the Kriza has any and both levels of that skill no? Otherwise... I mean... I like HI and I like my Tiger(s), so... yeah, I'd probably end up running this regardless. I already do enough questionable stuff on the regular, what's an extra AD HI gonna do worse about that.
I think grumbling about it before we've seen the profile is a bit premature. There are all kinds of tricks and easter eggs that can get thrown into a profile like this to give it an edge in internal balance. Another thing to remember is that the value of different units changes a lot depending on the mission. A high cost, tough AD HI drop troop becomes very valuable in sector control missions, where it can walk on to the table when it is needed and be hard to shift in a mission like frontline etc. This could be a big deal for a firepower based sectorial with lots of points tied up in relatively slow moving links - if your zuyong link is tied down being able to get a lot of points up the table fast where you need it could be a game changer.
Yeah. I already find the option of an AD HI very appealing. Especially since AD troops can walk in or even template into a rather important part of the table and simply be a nuisance... I myself have had games where the actual value of the Tiger Soldier was... being in cover and on Suppressive Fire the entire match. Das it. Stopped an entire Myrmidon ( Or was it Thorokitai. Can't quite remember. ) link in it's tracks.
Yeah, the big challenge will be to make the Liu Xing not just a better Tiger, but different. Though I think that's an issue for vanilla YJ only. Pretty sure the Invincible Army will only have access to the Liu Xing. Art looks awesome. Has an interesting array of things on the dossier. Profile will be the critical question.
The Tiger Soldier's main shtick is good mid-cost specialist profiles, and mid-cost assault profiles with some good bite and efficiency. To stand out, the Liu Xing should probably focus on being a front-line combat unit (and the Tiger should gain a few additional specialist options to reinforce its first role). This means some kind of firefight boost skill or equipment. Full Auto? MSV2? Marksman? Fatality? Mimetism? Something new? Who knows, but the Liu Xing needs to be something more than a hackable, 2-wound, AD trooper. If it is too cheap and/or comes with better specialist options then it will obviate the Tiger in one of its best roles. If it is too pricey without offering a solid set of combat abilities then it will never get taken over the Tiger (or alongside it). My ideal here is to make the Liu Xing and Tiger go together like the Daofei and Guilang. I want them to be tandem assault buddies with the big dude covering the small one as they drop in and form a pintpoint front for an assault. This is especially important as (unless it has changed) they will be in direct competition with each other as Red Veil has shown us that Tigers are part of the IA. So a slight addition/rework to the Tiger for some additional specialist profiles (FO, KHD, or maybe even an Engineer profile) and some kind of hefty assault-oriented skill/equipment for the Liu Xing would make for a healthy place for both of them.
PanO are already speculating that the new Varuna AD troop comes with some form of Visor (Multispec, Bio, X-visor, etc) - and CA already have that option via (ex-YJ) Ko Dali. So not entirely unheard of. Although - you mentioned Mimetism... And that would be stepping on the Tiger's toes again :P
The reason Pano players are speculating that Echo Bravo has MSV is because its helmet with 6 eyes looks similar to the 6 eye helmets of other Pano MSV units. I don't think Liu Xing is going to have any extra skills. A 2 wound AD troop is still plenty good. Yes, it will be hackable but so will all the HI in the invincible army. We are going to need some kind of KHD in this army, I don't want another MO situation (HI based sectorial with no KHD)
Yeah but the point of the KHD is to support the hackable targets like the HI links and stuff. At 69pt the Hac Tao is the army you can't take those to support stuff like a zuyong link.
