As a long time Aleph and Ariadna player, I am currently way more hyped for TAK than Vedic. I really hope that the cyber dancer isnt what I currently picture it to be. I love infinity for the tactical flexibility and how unimportant combos are (same reason Aristea isnt my cup if tea..). So far, the cyber dancer sounds like it makes most sense in REM spam list to exploit the combo as much as possible (especially since there is SWC cost involved).
Given the new access to both drop bears and a mine dispenser, getting an AP Mine in place to cover the marker, without the impersonator being able to react, on the order before you attempt a discover is going to be the norm.
Can you throw a drop bear near a camo marker? I know you need to intuitive attack to place a mine in range of a camo marker...
Biometric Visor L2 gives +3 mod to discover Holoechos and Impersonators, range within 8" gives another +3.
Deva sensors can do it too. The problem with Asura is that her various profiles are a bit clunky: spitfire without being Lt, HD+ with a pathetic weapon unworthy of Asura's statline, and now (till we have other informations) HD+/multi rifle without being Lt. She could be a real toolbox but each of her profiles are only missing a little something to make it worth.
Unless that camo is on another side of the table. All Asura needs is a line of sight. I fully agree on the rest.
And the deva can reveal several markers at the same time for a third of her price ^^ But they play different roles, i mostly mentionned the deva since it's my usual Lt when i don't want to take Machaon and i'm like "so, my list is nearly complete and, what is that red warning, my list is not valid ? ho, forgot to take a lieutenant ... well what can i take ?" - another reason why i want a Lt profile on Asura HD+/MULTI
Only reason to play with msv3 are the entire order discover+shoot, with smoke barrier or don't. This is the real trick for all mvs3... Aquila guard, Charontid & Asura they have free discover to do that and nice BS to finish the job. Im waiting to see the last upgrade im expect for the HD+ LT with MULTI rifle... that's a shame with that beast carrying with the shit of common combi rifle :/
Completely irrelevant to this topic, but that's two short skills, not 1 long skill. (Said just for clarity more than anything) I think retracting the current errata on multipoint models and shock would go a long way to help here. Or a significant points reduction due to how rubbish shock is. Just as another comparison, she's paying 20 points more than an aquila guard for hacking device, nwi, nano pulsar +1 Arm and -1 BS. Given a HD+ is 8 ( or 10?) points it feels like nwi is close to 10 points which is really over valued currently.
*Looks at list for tonights game* 6/10 orders can have shock... with another 2/10 with mines... So 8/10... Nah, shock is pretty uncommon ;)
MSV3 is 12 or 13 points. That's 7-9 points up from MSV2 (4 or 5 points). The bonuses third level gives should at most be worth 1 point, if that.
I'd argue it's worth is higher 7-9 but then I was using the WIP 13 aquila where discover is still far from automatic
Even with Aquila. If you are discovering in Active turn, that's half an Order down the toilet, minimum. No competent player should expose it's Camo tokens to you across the board, so you had to maneuver to get to see them, probably from very up close. Chances are it's a mine - or it's a Chasseur thats gonna flamethrower you in the face. If you are discovering in your Reactive turn, nice for you, now eat these unopposed rolls (or maybe Flamethrower in the face? Chasseurs don't like to see people cold). Again, if you are doing it across half the map, competent player will just shoot you first with something high burst, example: Active Player 56.47% Kazak Spetsnazs (Camo) inflicts 1 or more wounds on Aquila Guard (1 W) 21.65% Kazak Spetsnazs (Camo) inflicts 2 or more wounds on Aquila Guard (Unconscious) 4.82% Kazak Spetsnazs (Camo) inflicts 3 or more wounds on Aquila Guard (Dead) Failures 32.70% Neither player succeeds Reactive Player 10.82% Aquila Guard inflicts 1 or more wounds on Kazak Spetsnazs (Camo) (Unconscious) Discover in reactive is only worthwhile when it's somebody unimportant you don't mind taking hits. Aquila and Asura don't really fall into this category - not because of the skirmisher, but because if that skirmisher can see you, chances are, something nastier can see you too. In Active turn, maybe NCA has enough Orders to run around with Aquila autodiscovering, Aleph unfortunately is not that blessed with Orders.
Remember, not all metas are the same. Likewise not all terrain is the same. If you are never able to see anything outside 8", problem might be too much terrain for you. Either through height advantage, or positioning I've happily spotted camo markers from outside 8" range.
Yes and no. Camo markers tend to be deployed prone, in nooks and crannies of building where you can see them outside 20cm - if you are far up the table. Not from near your deployment zones, and with plenty of other things to navigate (ARO pieces, etc). In fact, in my experience you usually know which Camo markers are Ambush or Mines since they are not prone. ^^ Not everything can be handwaved away by meta. Unless you are playing with all S1 terrain, of course.
