Yea I know it's a yet another thread on some underused PanO's unit but bear with me for this mental exercise ;) So recently I've realized (quite late) that actually we don't have in game a unit with an Hyperdynamics L3. So I present you a first, full premium PanO WB Code: No Cube, Reglar, Impetues MOV CC BS PH WIP ARM BTS S AVA (Vanilla) 6-2 23 12 14 13 3 6 2 4 (1) Jungle Terrain, Berserk, Hyperdynamics L3, Religious Teuton - Chain Rifle, EXP+AP CCW ~30 pts Teuton - Pulzar, Eclipse LGL EXP+AP CCW 0.5 SWC ~32 pts Teuton(Strategos) Lt - Chain Rifle, EXP+AP CCW, 1 SWC ~30pts Q&A: Q: But you are crazy wishlister and want to make PanO OP! Dodging on 23 is crazy good! A: Well it is, but it is also not exactly that "reliable" as it is only 1 dice. It's quite possible that Teuton will quickly go down to any dedicated ARO piece (linked sniper, HMG etc.), but his +3 to dice roll is to make it a bit more possible to a fact that he might at least successfully dodge few times. Also remember Teuton won't get any vis mods! Q: You crazy bastard, why you want to make them immune to mines/deployables ? A: Well I want to remind you we are at the point of having hacking/EM immune HI so another HI which is immune to most but a few templates it's not that crazy. Remember that Teuton now is impetus meaning he can get no modifiers to enemy shooting at him (even weakest guy can shoot him on 14 if in good range) and Teuton himself has only token BS weapon (Chain Rifle). He has no stealth so still a hacking is a good deterant for him. Q: There's no counter to him! A: Again he can never benefit from cover, has no means of getting visibilty mods, so all he counts on is lucky high roll on dodge, otherwise he's a toast even to humble Combi Rifle. He's easier to kill by combi within 16" than a Shikami in cover! Also Teuton has no stealth so get your hacker's and repeaters up and running. Q: You idiot why make a murder machine, he's CC prowess is close to JSA! A: Well he's "good" in CC for sure, but mostly due to his Berserk. Even the simplest cheerleader have something like ~20% chance of wounding him, and Teuton himself is only really dangerous in CC, in which he still have to get (remember he has no means of getting visual mods!). He's also missing MA or NBW and he's still behind Domaru when it comes to CC. Q: But he is totally bonkers with 6-2 movement! A: I dont think so. Remember he can only move fast "horizontally" in contrast to particular cat which can either make an 8" cautious move, or easily climb on every available building and murder people from there. Q: Ok, let's say he's reasonable what is his goal&purpose in MO ? A: Well he's a premium WB. You can either take Teutons as your main Order and have up to 4 of them and with some coordinated orders, impetus etc. you can have a good chance that at least few of them will him something expensive with their swords. It's not 100% reliable though (single dice of dodge against possible dedicated ARO). He's Hyperdynamics L3 also means that if opponent do not kill them during their reactive turn, they must dedicate a little bit more resources to reliably kill them. I also want to point out that they do cost 6 times more than a Ghazi, so Teutons are not that "cheap&easy" distraction or WB type :) (and quite possibly they would still run away from Morlocks with E/M weapons). If you take 4 of them, then you can "only" have 2 different confrere knights, meaning usually either you take Santiago DUO, or full Hospitaller Knight link (but that plus 4 Teutons would be something like 260 pts at least). Q: Aren't they making Magisters obsolete ? A: Well Magisters can link :P That's the main difference between them. As much as Maigsters might have been thought to be PanO's WB they arent really taken outside of Hospitaller/Santiago link (mayby 1 additional if overwatch ML dies). If someone is crazy enough they can even make a full Impetues combat group in MO xD (for something like 280 pts xD). Q: You want Eclipse in MO ? A: Yes ? It's on LGL and BS12 platform so it's not being able to throw smoke on 17s but on 15s (if outside of 8"), Teuton cost like 2 times more than Makaul and SWC so it's not that it's a really cheap option if MO player really wants him, but he's possible secondary of fallback solution if MO's HMG go down to some lucky crit or other accident. Also mind that Teutons cannot link, so no burst increase. Q: Why Strategos ? A: Those few Tuetons who lived long enough to tell the tale, and actually lead people suddenly learned how to command their troops efficiently. Also wanted to make use of abomination of Teutons 1 SWC Lt option. Mind you that MO/Vanilla must pay whole 1 SWC for a privilage of Strategos Teuton Lt option. Q: Why EXP+AP ? A: Well AP might be a tid much, obviously I couldn't run several test games to check if it's totally OP. I thought that it's worth to make him dangerous to heavily armored units (TAGs) knowing that he's quite likely to go down against their first CC ARO (quite a few heavy TAGs do have DA CCW). I would though defend AP part if it is deemed to strong. Also wanted to play on the fluff side and famous Teutonic double sword theme ;P Also I'm one of the last people to have a warm fellings towards Teutonic Order ;P @daboarder @barakiel @Stiopa @Mahtamori @A Mão Esquerda @ijw
I like it. I'd still keep him at Hyperdynamics L2 and BS 13 (with some BS weapon in each profile), but I really like it.
IMHO Hyper:L2 is stilll bit to unreliable (one unlucky dodge and combi surely will down you). But hey I hadn't test run it several times. Also BS13 with an actual BS weapon would make them in ~40 something pts range thus really prohibiting from taking 4 of them in a "premium WB" mentallity.
MOV 6-2, Berserk, Ext. Impetuous, ODD, V:Dogged, EXP CCW, 2 SMG, when you really want to punch something in the face.
Well, kinda yes (I've mentioned it) but Magisters are now desigend around the link team and actual ARO pieces (LSG+Panzerfaust) and would be actual ones who are using BS weapons ;)
ECIU, STOP IT!!! No matter how much you ask it, 6-2 is not going to happen in a human profile. There's no reason for Teutons to become a HI warband like. This is PanO, TAGs are your thing. Stop asking for cool skills in PanO HIs, that's YuJing territory. The cool skills are for your TAGs, the rest of the PanO units should get high tech equipment and weapons, something that is starting to happen. Seriously, if you want to go melee so much you have two options: start JSA or go back to WH 40k, plenty of Deus Vult with the Black Templars there. You are not charging to melee through the field with knights in MO, not gonna happen, so get over it. And regarding these threads popping all the time, this is starting to go the Morat route. @psychoticstorm the threads asking for stuff in PanO subforum should start getting moderated. PanO is getting a 4th sectorial yet you all continue asking for more...
First of all every faction can have nice HI. Yu Jing's simply has a larger, more diverse selection, as well as better optimized profiles. Second, don't tell us what we can or cannot discuss. We're not visiting YJ subforum telling you not to ask for nice things.
Some time ago someone would say so about TAG links, or Dakini HMG, but whatever. So can we take away super nice TAGs from CA as "cool TAGs" is our thing ? I will comment when we will actually see them. Remember it's PanO which we are speaking about here. If you have ever put any attention into what I do write you wouldn't say such a thing. Git gut kid with reading. Because forums are not a proper place for some speculations and hypotetical units/fixes/changes discussion ?
It's too reliable with this. You literally can't be hit by a mine or a flamethrower. Comparing with Hospitaller, it seems like what's needed is for Teutons to decide whether to be a Berserker or a gun fighter. Berserk is a really expensive skill and I think looking at Domaru to see what they do to make it work isn't a bad idea. I do think you've gone overboard with band-aids here, however. Dropping the Combi Rifle to Chain Rifle isn't a bad start, and changing the Frenzy to Impetuous isn't bad either (and also the one thing I've felt Domaru was missing), but I'd start testing at that point, however. The 6-2 MOV and the Hyper-Dynamics is superfluous to the point, IMO. I mean, we're already at a regular 2-wound unit with Panzerfaust, great stats and for similar or less than a Bolt, without adding fairly big deal things like HDyn3.
First Sakiel with Nimbus plus, then Makaul with HFT. Still dodges on 17, so wouldn't do it. Maybe with Nimbus plus + some MSV2 shooting.
We have enough gunfighting HIs, especially in MO. Teuton should be HI warband. One thing to keep in mind should be that it indeed shouldn't be as optimized as YJ HIs.
Under normal circumstances no (as I've mentioned there are also now unhackable/impossible to IMM/Isolate HI). Plus with templates you can always start using Nimbus ^^
Comon, if Bostria can do that I also can do that (mind that in difference to some people I dont go to to Yu-Jing forums and harras them with that, nor say what they can or not have ;P)
Are you sure you don't mean "Nomad HIs"? Grass is greener and all that :) You'd still be dodging on 20, so Nimbus isn't enough. I don't know which HI is impossible to IMM, except Wulvers who are "HI". I think what you've designed have hit a few points where the points cost goes up significantly to the point where I'm not sure it'd actually be worth fielding after CB's numbers have crunched on it.
First of all, did you draw that ? Cuz that's awesome. Secondly i like it, but i will echo dropping it to hyper dynamics l2. Remember pupniks were already changed so they wouldnt be completely immune to templates. Also ap explosive might be too much, at cc 23 you can consistently not use berserk against a tag and just win f2f rolls. The teutons normal 21 is way too unreloable but that extra 10% added to every roll makes a big diff. Overall 6-2 movement, bs 12 and even an smg + eclipse smoke would do a lot to make me take the teuton. Also for the person referencing 40k... please dont make laughable arguments, first of all marines being good at cc , maximun hues. Secondly black templars being good at , either getting across the field or good once they get in cc.... unlimited hue works.
Me ? My drawing skills are somewhere around ugly stick-people. I might though post something in terms of arts in some close future ;) No. I've found this imagine on my drive, it's probably from one of more well known Infinity Comic artist (can't name or link from memory ;( ). Was it during N2->N3 transision ? Never knew it. Well if he's "only" Hyperdynamics L2 we can cancel it eniterly as Eclipse LGL will be almost always better as you need only 1 won F2F with it to block completly enemy's vision/firelane. Whole point of Hyper:L3 is to "not provide" LoF blocking, and in exchange requiring probably few approaches (few opportunities for enemy to get lucky ARO) when moving to midfield/behind big buildings.
I also like this idea. The concept of PanO having a true HI warband is an idea I've wanted for a while. If we're going to have MO in PanO, we need them to be offering more than they currently do. I often mention that it's sad Magisters have such low AVA in Vanilla, and only come with shotguns instead of direct template weapons, because I would like use them in Vanilla as a flexible option. I think this Teuton design takes that idea, and makes it better. I really like the execution of the concept. And while insane Hyper Dynamics is something I would want to both play test and number-crunch in the dice calculator... One dice is only one dice. Failure will occur. I've lost Saito Togan and Shinobu Kitsune in CC many times, because one dice is always unreliable, and usually those two are making their check vs only 1 enemy dice in F2F. The Teuton making checks against enemy Burst 4? Yeah, very high Hyper Dynamics would not be too powerful. As for Yu Jing coming here and asking moderators to stop these threads... I don't crash into your house and make you clean your living room, so why are you trying to do the same to us? When I'm sick of the constant whining about Uprising... I stop going to the Yu Jing forum. Seriously, give it a try. Imposing some self restraint when something annoys you will make you feel like a big boy. Expanding on that... No faction has the Monopoly on interesting or unique unit design. What the f*ck is happening... Yu Jing players sit there and watch Nomads get amazing HI choice after HI choice, but they still come to the PanO section to pick fights when we just want one or two innovative choices also? Get some perspective. Lastly, with Helots very clearly not being the warband unit we thought they might be, the notion of "high tech warband" is still unexplored. There's a cool design space to be explored here.
