Markers Moves into Close Combat - the perpetual confusion

Discussion in '[Archived]: N3 Rules' started by Natsymir, Jan 5, 2018.

  1. Natsymir

    Natsymir Well-Known Member

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    A Hassassin Fiday in marker state is around a corner from a Shaolin Monk.

    Case #1:
    The Fiday spends its first short skill to go around the corner and reaches base to base contact with the Shaolin monk.

    Do the Fiday get a chainrifle to the face, or is the Shaolin Monk barred from using ranged attacks as the Fiday began outside LOF and in marker state, and reached close combat with the first of his short skills?

    Case #2:
    The Fiday spends one short skill to move into the Shaolin's Line of Fire, but does not reach close combat, and is still a marker. The Shaolin declares delay ARO. The Fiday spends its second short skill to move into base to base contact with the Shaolin.

    Do the Fiday get a chainrifle to the face, or is the Shaolin Monk barred from using ranged attacks as the Fiday began outside LOF and in marker state, and reached close combat, even though he did not do so with the first of his short skills?

    Case #3:
    The Fiday does -NOT- begin in marker state, but being a Martial Artist, still has Stealth. He does still begin around a corner, outside LoF. He then spends a short skill to move into the Shaolin's LoF, but reaches base to base contact.

    Do the Fiday get a chainrifle to the face, or is the Shaolin Monk barred from using ranged attacks as the Fiday began outside LOF and has stealth, and reached close combat with the first of his short skills?
     
  2. xagroth

    xagroth Mournful Echo

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    #1: gets chainrifle to the face, the same way a Fiday moving 10cm to enter B2B with the enemy Lt will eat flames, shots, etc...
    #2: gets chainrifle to the face, since the fiday revealed himself in the second short order, thus activating the "generates ARO ASAP".
    #3: Again, chainrifle to the face, same as case #2.

    You wanna kick the shaolin? Go for his back and do a Surprise Attack to impose a -6 to him. Or throw smoke from outside the shaolin's LoF so the template covers at least a small part of the Shaolin's base/Fiday's base when he reaches B2B with the shaolin, so the only answer is CC/dodge.

    Or be classic, drop a mine on the corner and go the other way. When the shaolin goes to his Active turn, he will have to do a move+dodge, and if he fails... shock template to the face.
     
  3. colbrook

    colbrook Grenade Delivery Specialist

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    Starting outside LoF is irrelevant, if your Declared movement is visible to an enemy they get an ARO.

    (except for Cautious Move, natch)
     
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  4. cazboab

    cazboab Definitely not Cazboaz.

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    In example 1 if a marker reaches base to base then it is revealed for the entire movement. Unless the Monk is facing away from the corner in question, the fiday is a valid target for a chain rifle shot since its physically impossible to get into base to base contact without drawing line of sight at some point when not base to base.

    In example 2, delay allows an ARO if the second short order reveals the model, and since the model would be revealed by base to base contact an ARO is valid.

    In example 3, stealth does nothing to line of fire, so the ARO is valid.
     
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  5. Natsymir

    Natsymir Well-Known Member

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    What has always caused the confusion is this bullet point under "Stealth":

    "If the Movement of the trooper with Stealth ends in base to base contact with an enemy and declares any non-Movement Short Skill, then the enemy can only declare CC Attack, Dodge, Reset, or those Skills that can be used in Engaged state."

    I guess it should be interpreted as only being valid if your ENTIRE movement was outside the enemy LoF, even if you began as a marker, but the layout of the Stealth rule makes it really unclear.
     
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  6. colbrook

    colbrook Grenade Delivery Specialist

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    When you Declare a Movement you have to declare the entire movement path, if any part of the Declared Move is in LoF you can't use stealth.

    I guess the confusion lies that people think you just Declare "Move" and then decide on the path, the correct way is to Declare "Move via this path".

    Your quoted paragraph allows a Trooper to use stealth to sneak up behind an enemy Hacker/Jammer without being targeted on the way in.
     
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  7. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Yes, I believe that the intent is for Stealth's Effects to be read as:

    EFFECTS
    • Allows the user to make Cautious Movements inside the Zone of Control of an enemy.
    • A trooper with Stealth that declares a Short Movement Skill or Cautious Movement within the Zone of Control of one or more enemies but outside their LoF does not grant AROs to those enemies, even if he reaches base contact with them.
      • However, if the second Short Skill of the Order is any non-Movement Skill, then those enemies can react normally in ARO.
      • If the Movement of the trooper with Stealth ends in base to base contact with an enemy and declares any non-Movement Short Skill, then the enemy can only declare CC Attack, Dodge, Reset, or those Skills that can be used in Engaged state.
     
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  8. Mc_Clane

    Mc_Clane Zhànzhēng bùzhǎng
    Warcor

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    The only way to avoid to be chainrifled is to aproach from the 180° of the back of the shaolin. No LoF, no chain rifle. (Note that on B2B contact the monk has 360° vision, but it can't declare to shoot at that point)

    You can approach this point on it's back with an extra order as a marker (move+move), or as a mini with a cautious move fron the corner
     
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