Hi! I'm playing Ariadna, but only using Kazak units while waiting for TAK. I have an old force but will be replacing/rebuilding/repainting everything. And while planning I've been thinking about tank hunters. I guess we we'll not see an auto canon in the nearest time, and a missile launcher might also be far away. So conversion time... And before I begin: When is the auto canon really a good choice? I've played with it but find that the burst of 2 makes it so-so in the active turn. And in reactive turn I find the missile launcher works better as it has a template while still being explosive. Is it just a "cheap" option to get some "ok at multiple roles but not really good at any"? I know the AC has an enormous potential for damage but if you use coordinated fire you lose the burst advantage vs ML. Do people use the AC for ARO or as an active hunter? And in most cases in active turns, isn't the risk of losing the FTF due to low burst (compared to the HMG) more of a problem than the merit of higher potential damage for each hit scored? So the question is: Do you use the AC because it (the profile or the model) is so cool or because it's a good choice?
The Autocannon Because its an upgunned cateran T2 sniper/. Essentially, with its B2 AP EXP ammo it opperates as your early game first strike peices, A unit you dont want to be just wasting as a disposable ARO, a unit that you want to get the initial active turn shots with. However with ARM3 camo and the AP EXP shots, mid to late game, when most of the enemy B4+ has been hunted down and killed is when you swing to the use of these pieces as reactive weapons, where the camo and ranges allow them to dominate an punish opponents who are down to using rifles to attack you.
Why don't you use the HMG as a early striker instead? They also have the same range bands while the missile launcher or a sniper have longer range bands.
A few reasons 1) Its pretty terrible on reactive if its not in SF or a link, and SF range bands are often counter to the ranges and locations I want my Tankhunters to be opperating from 2) An AP HMG wants to move around the table and hunt things down to get the best bank for its buck, as opposed to sitting in a location where it can kill a few troops stupid enoguh to be in the open, then act defensively. and hte Tank hunter is slow being 4-2 3) there are much better AP HMG platforms in ariadna and TAK, the Vet Kazak for one is 4-4 NWI, ARM5 and Mimetism, its the exact kind of model you want hunting the opposition down and moveing forwards with. So Id put my AP HMG there. Or if you want to keep things extra cheap Line Kazaks are another option and are essentially disposable.
So you use the AC as a static active turn killer (exactly like the HMG is) but you don't want the HMG because when you turn to being an ARO piece the AC has more killing power. So you should probably prefer having a HMG for the active turn AND a ML for ARO. But the AC is a good compromise. Or maybe a vet kazak HMG and tankhunter ML, SWC allowing . Did I get it right, @daboarder ?
no not quite. I want long range, high damage weapons for active early game that can dual role as a long range high damage weapon late game As well as a High Burst, active turn attack piece. though this piece is less of a requirement given TAKs apparent access to B3 8-24 high dam weaponry in non-swc T2 Mkmn rifles. meaning I should be able to double down on the reactive high power threats. Im actually quite excited by the idea of running a Line Kazak link with ML, a Spare vet kazak with T2 rifle-Xvisor (assuming he can join a Line Kazak link), a pair of tank hunter Autocannons and a T2 mkmn rifle strelok or Vassily (depending on his profile) That would give me, 2 B2 AP+EXP active/reactive pieces, a B2 reactive/active EXP+Impact template A B4 BS16 T2 rifle that shoots most things a BS13 out to 32 and a back up T2 B3 weapon that fights at +3 out to 24 and has camo as a back up attack piece Chuck in some things like a Scout or two nad a few doggos and I think its a list thats getting pretty full of hate. B1 really makes MLs a solely reactive weapon, even on camo troops they rarely have odds that I like of winning a roll, B2 in active pushes that damage output squarely into a solid active turn choice and the idea of being able to put that much hurt on a target at long range during the early game active is far to tempting to forgo when I can get the ML job of EXP Impact templates during reactive done cheaper for better elsewhere (See Line Kazak link) or active turn High burst hunting done better elsewhere (See AP HMG Vet Kazak or potential T2 rifle Vet Kazak+Line Kazak link) As to why not the ML and the HMG together. Because it lacks redundancy, because you are relying on a single model for active with no fallback and a single model for reactive with no fallback, both these models are also single role and as such open themselves up to getting engaged by the opponent in their weaker role. An Autocannon tank hunter may not be as solely effective as both as a reactive or active piece, it is however good enough at both that the opponent has no easy solution to deal with it at no risk.
Missile Launcher all the way. I used to play Autocannon, but he simply couldn't shine. For active turn I have HMG's, and it was a waste to use B2 Autocannon solely for ARO. Also, in my meta there are simply not enough "juicy" targets for AC (HI's and TAG's). Bonus point - I noticed that people tend to forget that Ariadna could have cammo'ed ML. So, when they don't see any ML on the table, they're more likely to cluster their links or units. And that's where template comes in handy. So once I took Tankhunter ML and from that day on I put him into all of my lists. Great ARO piece, great link team killer, delivers a punch with template.
In Ariadna you have two camo ML - Tankhunter and Scots Guard. Both are not very popular (if not almost non-existent) in my meta. So yeah, camo ML in Ariadna is basically a surprise.
I mean, forgetting those depends on local meta as well I suppose... since I've yet to actually see any Camo MLs... most of the time I only see TR HMG REMs. Still, Camo MLs are painful indeed.
The Tankhunter ML is also a steal. It’s one of the leanest Camo MLs in the game, since it’s the only Tankhunter profile without D-charges.
I've run some tests putting AC and HMG in active turn and optimal range vs szalamandra and alguaciles. Seems AC has a slight higher risk for a quite higher damage output. I only tried in optimal range and not vs mimetism/odd but I was surprised how effective the autocanon was. I guess the HMG gets better as the negative modifiers stack up though, but that's another thing. So, I'm going to convert an autocanon first! Probably waiting with ML until I can form a link. Thanks for the help!
you cant forget the curves for these things either, the HMG has a tighter curve because it rolls more dice, the AC can hit or miss more variably than a HMG, but once it does hit the AC has a tighter curve because again, more dice
I prefer to use the spetsnaz HMG before TH. You almost fire always at BS15 and has shock for More Killing (with capital leters). Then I always wear at least one ARO piece. If going full kazak I usually take ML (but now maybe I will swap to Vassily) if playing vanilla I choose between cateran and BlackJack (both T2). Finally, I always take the autocannon. Since I cover the active with the spetsnaz and the aro with the up choise, I have this troop as an "all trade jack". If I need an extra ARO it's better than an HMG and if I need a bit of streng against a TAG or HI is not as effective as an AP HMG but when you hit from camo si great sensation and if both shots hit... Oh man, the despair in your enemy's face is just beautiful. And still 2 to 1.5 SWC left for other shiny things. Summing up. Everithing has an use and pros and cons. Try it and choose your way.
I experimented quite extensively with the AC loadout but every single time the question boils down to 'HMG Spetsnaz or AC tankhunter?' and the sole reason to go AC Tankhunter was always rule of cool. (Double Spetsnaz for ass-kicking day in, day out!) In the active turn he is outshone by the marvel we keep calling murderbots and in reactive turn he is just too expensive for what he does... Indeed if rule of cool is reason not good enough for you, you are not entitled to play Ariadna.
AC is a better option against TAGs. Although it is much riskier because of the lower burst. AP HMG is better against pretty much everything else, and can also work against TAGs if you have enough orders. Spetnaz HMG is better than AP HMG Tankhunter against anything that has less than 5 armor. Don't use the AC for ARO, get a missile launcher for that. AC is for surprise attack on really hard targets.
