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How to fix Pano

Discussion in 'PanOceania' started by Zsolt, Jul 21, 2018.

  1. Death

    Death Well-Known Member

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    I can reverse the question, and ask what exactly does Pano have thats troublesome for other factions to deal with? The other factions have many ways to counter out best units while we often have but one solution and thats shooting.

    When it comes to high tech shooting factions, both Aleph and CA are scarier than Pano at this point and are much more well rounded forces. With linked teams they can match or exceed any of the shooting advantage Pano supposedly has.

    Considering that Panos only strategy in objective based missions is to kill the enemy then grab objectives and hope they don't go into retreat first, yes, Pano is certainly lower tier. I don't think there is any real way to argue otherwise.

    Some highly skilled players being able to win tournaments with Pano is not the same as Pano dominating the tournament scene. We know the factions that dominate and its the ones with the easiest time garbing objectives and having large order pools.
     
    #161 Death, Jul 27, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2018
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  2. Andre82

    Andre82 Well-Known Member

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    But shooting is pretty much everyones plan A... When they have to go to plan B then you are doing something right.

    Are they?
    Really?

    Pretty sure that is also my default strategy for all my factions...

    Oh? So those players who won did it despite PanO and not because of it. Infact if they are really playing to win they should be mastering the higher tier faction.
     
  3. Death

    Death Well-Known Member

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    Right, because everyone is rushing to play Pano because its so great for ITS/tournament play.........

    Every faction in the game can't be top tier. Some are a little worst than others. Pano is a little worst. Thankfully, Infinity is balanced so that theres not that great a gap between factions.
     
    #163 Death, Jul 27, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2018
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  4. Keyrott

    Keyrott Nomad Handyman

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    Didn't MO win the last Interplanetario? And I'm pretty sure PanO's numbers are pretty high in ITS play? If that's wrong correct me.
     
    #164 Keyrott, Jul 27, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2018
  5. Death

    Death Well-Known Member

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    Yes, there are a lot of Pano players but they didn't all reach the top. The winner was MO but the factions with the most players at the top was not Pano.

    Are we really arguing whether or not Pano is a strong faction for ITS? really? The factions are not all equally good for ITS. Being second tier doesn't mean Pano is crippled in ITS.

    Edit: Oh yeah, that was Interplanetario that an MO player won. I believe the Combine Army won ITS. Its why CA got bit and kiss.
     
    #165 Death, Jul 27, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2018
  6. Skoll

    Skoll Well-Known Member

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    Below are players and armies played in interplanetario last year. According to the only source i can find.

    As you can tell pano is not really abundant in the top .




    1. Marduk Military Orders
    2. Karolis Nomads
    3. Plebian Ariadna
    4. Phlyk Steel Phalanx
    5. Daixomaku ???
    6. SIRXX Aleph
    7. logan Combined Army
    8. spears Tohaa
    9. Mohoyorko Ariadna
    10. dancingpigeon PanOceania
    11. odez USAriadna Ranger Force
    12. Reyzah Morat Aggression Force
    13. Tracamanya ???
    14. Stun25 ???
    15. Demus Aleph
    16. Reficul Ariadna
    17. Zlakhon Ariadna
    18. Gothorum Shock Army of Acontecimento
    19. careganto Tohaa
    20. Tristan228 Jurisdictional Command of Bakunin
    21. Kristoff Qapu Khalqi
    22. Alri Tohaa
    23. Kaudiyo Combined Army
    24. Shas'O Kassad Neoterran Capitaline Army
    25. Leirbag Combined Army
    26. Fari Caledonian Highlander Army
    27. Jorge PanOceania
    28. R3b00 YuJing
    29. Bredar Ariadna
    30. Melmak Caledonian Highlander Army
    31. dieldien Combined Army
    32. Sir_Fincor Tohaa
    33. StonySting Tohaa
    34. Usagi Ariadna
    35. vettel Combined Army
    36. Kelthret Aleph
    37. darkdoji Onyx Contact Force
    38. Zergash Yujing
    39. GrindCore ???
    40. Darkchant Ariadna
    41. gammaray Onyx Contact Force
    42. Shirloth PanOceania
    43. Masterofmelee Shasvastii Expeditionary Force
    44. rodrigaor Yujing
    45. Seiko Aleph
    46. Omadon PanOceania
    47. Nebrera Tohaa
    48. Quirk Military Orders
    49. Perzan Hassassin Bharam
    50. Alz Nomads
    51. eciu Military Orders
    52. ??? ???
    53. Darkness Hassassin Bharam
    54. andy-elsabio Shock Army of Acontecimento
    55. equaton PanOceania
    56. Foxep ???
    57. Lord_Cabaleiro Force de Réponse Rapide Merovingienne
    58. jsuso Haqqislam
    59. Erebus 2,0 Combined Army
    60. Kelzaral Tohaa
    61. Thierry Ariadna
    62. Inmel Nomads
    63. Epsolon921 Tohaa
    64. Aatu Morat Aggression Force
    65. aphexblue Neoterran Capitaline Army
    66. jesus Jurisdictional Command of Corregidor
    67. Whelpslayer Neoterran Capitaline Army
    68. miki Imperial Service
    69. srbarrod Tohaa
    70. pedrogzc Steel Phalanx
    71. C0MR4DE Jurisdictional Command of Bakunin
    72. choponet Ariadna
    73. davili Tohaa
    74. killAv Neoterran Capitaline Army
    75. Blindside Nomads
    76. Aquiles Steel Phalanx
    77. von_drake Haqqislam
    78. DPA Aleph
    79. kennyisdead Shasvastii Expeditionary Force
    80. HurVo Jurisdictional Command of Corregidor
    81. flautaman666 Aleph
    82. hqr PanOceania
    83. Caelcifer Qapu Khalqi
    84. S Y lP lH 3 lR Tohaa
    85. Damiel Onyx Contact Force
    86. Pendragonstn Tohaa
    87. ijw Onyx Contact Force
    88. Menglog Japanese Sectorial Army
    89. Locke Japanese Sectorial Army
    90. Diacono Del Coriandolo Tohaa
    91. Bast Jurisdictional Command of Bakunin
    92. Urizen Shock Army of Acontecimento
    93. Pupnik Nomads
    94. Paradur Japanese Sectorial Army
    95. Egape Morat Aggression Force
    96. Marauder343 ???
    97. garhex ???
    98. WarHound Neoterran Capitaline Army
    99. ALJO Yujing
    100. Asesinlo Combined Army
    101. Nando Haqqislam
    102. Dekens Qapu Khalqi
    103. Coveredinfish Haqqislam
    104. Espartaco ???
     
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  7. eciu

    eciu Easter worshiper

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    You aware that ITS and Interplanetario are 2 different things ? MO won Interplanetary, with 2 almost identical lists (TO vs MSV snipers) on very specific (if not skewed) mission set (hilariously set for TAGs, he played HI link (well only choice for MO)).
     
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  8. Keyrott

    Keyrott Nomad Handyman

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    That's why I said if I'm wrong correct me as I couldn't recall which exactly it was. Yes I'm aware they're different thanks ;)
    [​IMG]
     
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  9. Skoll

    Skoll Well-Known Member

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    Those arent mutually exclusive.

    Just because pano is just a strong as other factions at its doesnt mean people are rushing to play it.

    I often take breaks from pano to not get absolutely bored of it
     
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  10. Titus

    Titus Varuna Beach Commando

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    I think this thread is supposed to be about "how to fix PanO". Mostly because some people feel like PanO could offer more than it does, and fix a lot of its profiles, concepts and strategies.

    It's not about "Is PanO ITS viable?". So stop derailing and let's go back to the previous conversation and ideas which were interesting, please.
     
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  11. ThananRollice

    ThananRollice Your Friendly Neighborhood Locust
    Warcor

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    Alright, in an attempt to get back on track:

    Kirpal Singh obviously has some issues, because he is an expensive source of Chain of Command that doesn't even work. Other than fixing the ruling of CoC...

    In his fluff, it says, "No one in the PanOceanian army knows more than him about jumping behind enemy lines. His name appears in all paratroop training manuals since he revised and modified the design of the tactical jump backpacks and developed new techniques for jumping in extreme conditions."

    Singh should have Superior Combat Jump at the very least.
     
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  12. eciu

    eciu Easter worshiper

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    <whatever>
     
    #172 eciu, Jul 27, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2018
  13. Ayadan

    Ayadan Knight of the TAG Order

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    @Titus I think it is now canon that a thread about internal balance in PanO will derail to "Is PanO viable". You could even create a law like Godwin's one about this.
    Of course PanO is ITS viable. The faction has just not a learning curve similar to the other factions. While starting with PanO with other newbies will be easy, the moment their opponents begin to understand their own tricks, a PanO player just don't understand why suddenly his troops stop to perform well. And there begins a long period of bashing. We all have our way to consider how to play PanO but one thing we have a lot is good shooters. And this is that we can have spares with similar efficiency while the other factions can't. We can have so much different good shooters in the same list that it appears to be a too much to the others. Yes, your opponent can have a better shooter than you because of Camo, surprise shot or FT. But once this one goes down, how much has he now? Not that much. Aleph has Achille and the Marut? Well, once they are down, the list won't be that much difficult to crush as they all pay for WIP 14-15 and Nanopulsers.
    I agree with a lot of you that we could introduce more difference between units buy adjusting their profiles, loadouts and FT possibilities but if you all the time stay to play the same way as Haqq or Nomads by just playing one or two good shooters and then give them enough useless cheap troopers so that you have 16 orders, then there is no surprise.
     
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  14. Andre82

    Andre82 Well-Known Member

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    Really?
    Discussing PanO's place, its comparative power or lack of is very much of importance when trying to improve profiles, concepts and strategies... or do we just not really care about pesky things like balance?


    Well yah... I have had PanO on my list as a top tier toolbox. Haq, Tohaa, Ariadna, and PanO. Not in that order. So I am surprised to see them considered lower tier then that.


    Anyway in a effort to play fantasy wishlist.
    What about a Auxbot you can assign to some troops that activates a shield and absorbs all hits but is then destroyed?
    I kid I kid.

    Still The things PanO is missing is smoke, warbands and a unique PanO only ability set.
    You can't have cheap warbands because of Jeanna. I guess maybe if they where regular orders already... or better yet just equipment.
    You can't have smoke because CB hates you... Honestly I don't think a little smoke would be all that bad but then the Intruder and Hsien's value is diminished.

    You have hackers, you have great bots, you have combat jumping, you have a infiltration game that is maybe not the best but I still see my share of them.

    I am going to have to go read the full thread and try and figure out what the hell PanO is missing.
     
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  15. ThananRollice

    ThananRollice Your Friendly Neighborhood Locust
    Warcor

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    New unit idea: Tech Bee Dog Walker

    A single Tech Bee with the Engineer skill that is G:Synchronized with up to 4 Auxbots of all different "breeds." There's one with a shotgun, one with a smoke launcher, one with an HMG, one with a Marksman Rifle, etc, etc.

    The catch is that at the start of each turn she has to make a WIP check to see if she can keep them in line. If failed, all Auxbots become Extremely Impetuous, dragging her along with them.
     
  16. Shoitaan

    Shoitaan Well-Known Member

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    If my interpretation is correct, the answer is sex appeal.
     
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  17. colbrook

    colbrook Grenade Delivery Specialist

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    Nah, Stephen Rao is more than capable of bringing all the boys to the yard.

    #1 Infinity hot dad.
     
  18. Shoitaan

    Shoitaan Well-Known Member

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    I meant gameplay sex appeal/sexy gameplay. In a faction where we have models that range from the tech bee to the jotum, we have the physical stuff covered no matter what your fetish.

    Those poor mulebots sure attract a particular kind of client though...
     
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  19. Solodice

    Solodice Freshly Squeezed Troll

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    And there's why you come across as tone deaf in this thread. PanO isn't missing anything making it competitive. It's missing thematic elements to make it more interesting as a faction as a whole. As of right now vanilla PanO is the most bland thing in all of Infinity.

    As I've said before PanO players in here are not saying the faction sucks competitively. It sucks on a thematic level.

    PanO being lackluster thematically doesn't mean it isn't competitive. On the same hand because PanO is competitive doesn't mean it isn't thematically lackluster.
     
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  20. Death

    Death Well-Known Member

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    Our hackers are mediocre, lack repeater coverage, and we have only 1 KHD in all of Pano (hexa). Our AD is mediocre as well, but the nature of AD means it can still be quite effective, and our infiltration game is decent.

    None of that is really toolboxes. Prime example of a toolbox unit is the Heckler. Not the best shooters but has weapons that disrupt the enemy like the jammer or e-marat. Pano doesn't really have much in regards to toolboxes since almost all our units are focused on shooting.

    Theres nothing Pano can do that the Combine Army can't do but there sure is a lot in CA that is missing in Pano. I would certainly rate the combine army higher than Pano for ITS missions. Though, again, few people play generic Pano because theres no real advantage over Pano's sectorials.
     
    #180 Death, Jul 28, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2018
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