In Decapitation, the HVT counts as an enemy trooper and not a neutral civilian Does this mean you can doctor it?
Doctor also mentions troopers to be healed in the following bullet points. Your HVT is still a neutral civilian for your army though. Thus no healing for it.
I wouldn't use Transmission matrix as an example, since those repeaters are "neutral" for both players, while the limitations (range, firewall...) are only listed for enemy repeaters...
Friendly: Troopers that belong to the player's army list, or to those of a team maye, or team mates if the game is played in pairs or groups. Enemy: Troopers that belong to the opposing player's army list or to his team mate or team mates if the game in paira or groups. So... Yes to heal, then? By making the HVT an enemy trooper you make it part of an army list and defacto friendly as a result. Now where was the first thread on this at... http://www.infinitytheforums.com/fo...-Healing-Designated-Target-(HVT)?#entry974063
I disagree there. A neutral part which becomes enemy of one of the other parts does not default to friend to its enemies, contrary to popular sayings. Spoiler: copypaste from ITS9 book In some scenarios, the enemy HVTs are considered enemy troopers instead of Neutral Civilians, so they can be targeted by Attacks. Killing the enemy HVT does not cause loss of the game nor gives compensatory Objective Points to the adversary. HVTs will be reactive and hostile, reacting to any Order performed by an enemy active trooper in LoF or ZC. In such scenarios, players will use the following Troop Profile for HVTs: there says only the HVT becomes "an enemy trooper", but doesn't say it becomes allied to "the adversary".
By becoming an enemy trooper it becomes part of the opposing players army list. Which then makes it ... not meet the definition of Neutral, so...?
You are taking from granted a binary state as default, while the game contemplates 3 (friend, enemy and neutral). The HVT can be neutral for "his player" and enemy to the "enemy player". The HVT gives no order, consumes no order... it's only a reactive unit, of which we have seen examples in Dire Foes scenarios (hostile to both players, btw), and I don't see it magically showing up in my army list.
That seems like just as much a jump by applying multiple definitions to one model. I would go for @HellLois might need to pop in and say (plus publish) what they meant if they aren't completely using game definitions, then we can't parse out what is supposed to happen. All I am saying is there is more than a little case for either end result to be correct (notice my intial response up thread?)
I fail to see where am I applying more definitions to the HVT. Neutral to me and enemy to my enemy is the same number of "sides" we can count in neutral to me and neutral to my enemy, or your "friendly to me, enemy to my enemy". In any case, Medikit specifies it can only be used with friendly troops, while Doctor refers to "target", a word that cares not for you being friend or foe... so I fail to see where is the problem. Btw, coup the grace demands to be B2B with an unconscious enemy, so I think you could get a secondary objective by CdG the enemy HVT XD As far as I understand it, that's because on the dawn of the game the Medikits were used as "shock weapons" against enemy, conscious models XD
Except you can't declare Doctor while in the engaged state, so you can't doctor an enemy either. The neutral definition specifies that it does not belong to any army list. So the DT HVT can't be considered neutral as it is an enemy trooper making it belong to thr opposing players army list by definition. either the definitions (game terms) are being considered or they aren't. Still leaves us with a situation where we think we know, but do we really?
Even if you went to "doctor" an enemy, you would need an unconscious enemy, and you can simply do Coup de Grace. The trick back in the day was that the Medikit could be used against enemy, conscious troops... and if they failed the PH-3 roll, they would die. Engage is a state that activates when the trooper is in B2B with an enemy trooper. Since the HVT is neutral to one player, then that player's doctors can go B2B with him without engaging, and heal him since the HVT is a "target". As for your logic... Read the things before invoking the staff! Spoiler: Game elements wiki Alignment In Infinity it is important to define which game elements belong to each player side, and which ones belong to none. This determines if those game elements are capable of being attacked, and if so, from whom these attacks may come. The Alignment adjectives help the players know the extent of the rules over certain game elements, like Troopers, Models... Enemy. Troopers that belong to the opposing player's Army List or to his team mate or team mates if the game is played in pairs or groups. Friendly. Troopers that belong to the player's Army List, or to those of a team mate, or team mates if the game is played in pairs or groups. Hostile. Civilians or game elements that do not belong to the Army Lists of either the player or the opponent, which are not a threat to them and are not capable of declaring Attacks but apply negative MODs to Troopers interacting with them. Hostile is considered a subgroup within Neutral, and therefore any rule mentioning the term Neutral also applies to the Hostile elements. Neutral. Civilians or game elements that do not belong to the Army Lists of either the player or the opponent, which are not a threat to them and are not capable of declaring Attacks. So... the Designated Target HVT is marked as "reactive and hostile", and considered "enemy troopers instead of neutral civilians" (I admit the use of "hostile" can be misleading, but reading everything as a whole clarifies the thing). Again, as I see it, it is quite simply: HVT "A" is "neutral civilian" to player A and "enemy trooper" to player B, which means: For player A, Medikit is not an option (it is not a Friendly Troop because does not belong to the player's Army list) For player A, Doctor is an option, because you can heal any unconscious "target" (but trying to doctor an enemy trooper sends you to Engaged) For player B, the HVT is treated as any normal enemy trooper In no place is there any kind of condition that makes the HVT friendly to any player, because he is NOT a "trooper that belong to the player's army list". I fail to see why are you so intent in "writing" the HVT into a player's army list.
DT HVT aren't Civilians as they can be targeted by attacks. They aren't Hostile as they do not impose a negative mod to troopers interacting with them. Are advocating for a -3 WIP for missions such as comms center? I'm not trying to force anything here, I intially agreed with "Nope" but upon further research there is a case, to me, that the conclusion of can you heal an DT HVT ending up at "yes".
They're still Civilians and therefore not part of anyone's Army List. Otherwise they'd be part of a Combat Group and could have Orders spent on them etc.
Civilians cannot be attacked. DT HVT can... Thats the rub here, the game defintions haven't been followed.
