Elephant #1 - Jammer Heckler

Discussion in 'Nomads' started by Wyrmnax, Jul 6, 2018.

  1. Wyrmnax

    Wyrmnax Well-Known Member

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    So, Tunguska brougt in a few Elephants in the room.

    This time, we deal with the Heckler Jammer.

    My initial impression was that jammer would still be good, but would not be ridiculously oppressive as it is in Ghazi. The reasoning is that it is so oppressive on the Muttas is a combination of jammer being a good piece of gear, WIP15, DTWs to force the reset/dodge conodrum, smoke and the fact that they are completely disposable - with dogged.

    Now that I played around with Hecklers, I stand by my initial thought, with one caveat.

    Not being disposable means that a Heckler does not like being in that 8" range, unless it has a height advantage. If it does, it is much more difficult to move it around, requiring multiple orders to do so. You don't simply jump him down ignoring threats, or is ok if it gets traded for a volunteer, and if something gets you with a template / outside of good combi range then that PH with no smoke means you loose something that is not a throwaway.

    The caveat, however is this: Intuitive attack from outside of LOS is still bonkers. Not only you discover the camo on a 13 ( better than almost anything withouth specialized equipment ), but you also make a attack on the same order. Leaving something Isolated can mean that something does very little for the rest of the game, especially if it was put without a very easy access route ( IE: You planned for it not to die on turn #1 to use it as a attacking piece).
     
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  2. barakiel

    barakiel Echo Bravo Master Sergeant

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    It's an interesting one. The thing that leaps out at me is that Jammer in the Active turn is very Order intensive. Even against a WIP13, BTS0 target, the odds for success aren't great. Against anything with major WIP and BTS, the odds fall off quickly.

    The big threat of course is guarding a high traffic area, and prompting your enemy to Reset in their active turn while also dealing with mines or BS-based AROs. A Jammer in the right area can make an objective nigh-impossible to attack if an enemy didn't bring the right tools to dislodge that Heckler.

    Of course, in TJC itself, the Heckler Jammer is competing with a lot of other great profiles for a spot in the list. It's annoying on attack, amazing in defense, but isn't packing nearly the kind of versatility as a Spektr, or the firepower of a Red Fury or whatever else you want to bring that straight-out removes enemy units from the table.

    Given how weak TJC is in terms of templates and mines though, I think this unit is pretty critical for keeping a TJC DZ safe from dedicated hunters. I think that's the main reason I don't question the Jammer's presence at all; there's few things to stop a hostile unit from walking through a TJC DZ without that Jammer (or the threat of the Jammer) lurking there.
     
  3. Solar

    Solar Well-Known Member

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    The intuitive attack against camo markers by itself makes the profile worthwhile. I was using it recently and the ability to just wander up near a Foxtrot in a combined order, reveal them, and then stroll around the corner to plug the fucker was amazing.

    In a previous game, just having them hang around on a flank potentially generating an ARO if the Anthematic did anything other than MOV was also so useful. It's a bubble of an ARO that the enemy just does not want you to be able to make.

    Mimetism, BS 12 and a gun makes them relatively good at killing light troops on the active turn. Intuitive attack that reveals enemy skirmishers combo's extremely well with that, and the Fast Panda gives it excellent force multiplication capability. I really think that the Heckler Jammer is our best tool for rooting out enemy skirmishing camo markers, in Vanilla and Tunguska. And it's not like he's expensive either, for that capability. Better than a Guilang at it, despite no visor, and cheaper too. Of course the Guilang has other strengths, but still.
     
  4. wellspokenman

    wellspokenman Retired Intruder

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    In vanilla this profile does 3 things I want. It Isolates/reveals camo markers, it seriously extends hacking range, and it makes high cost rambos worry about every camo marker near your DZ. 23pts doesn't make it so expensive that I won't trade it for the type of things that I am taking it to shut down in the first place. In vanilla I'm going to bring other things to shut down Warbands.
     
  5. loricus

    loricus Satellite Druid

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    I mean we also have superjumping sensors.

    I think the Jammer is the type of tool players will get really good at using. When you can instantly realize when the board has a weak spot to take advantage of it. I know that how good my Moran are really changed over getting good at seeing the terrain in respect to Koalas.

    But right now, especially with all these people new to the faction, I'll bet he will feel like a bit of a wasted slot.

    To me a troop is really good when it gives you access to a new tactic that you want to use, and I think the Jammer does that. Just realized it is limp-wristed as a weapon.
     
  6. jimbo slice

    jimbo slice Well-Known Member

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    I think they're much better in a reactive turn/DZ defense role. Like @barakiel said, using the jammer in active turn can be pretty order intesive and kinda unreliable. Linkable sensor bots are a much more reliable way of revealing camo. Three jammer Hecklers can cover board edge to board edge in front of your DZ. They'll be great in Rescue, Looting and Sabotage, and Capture and Protect.
     
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  7. Solar

    Solar Well-Known Member

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    In the active turn I will pretty much only ever use the Jammer to provoke an ARO. If there's a Mine and I want them to Reset and get hit, or if they're in suppression and I want them to Reset and fall out of it, or if they are a camo marker and I can intuitive attack to reveal them. The purpose of the Jammer is that it has a relatively nasty outcome if it works, and therefore provokes my opponent to make a defensive roll which breaks them out of more useful states, which reduces their defensive posture. That the Jammer also could potentially Jam them is merely gravy. Against anyone where the outcome of spending an order Jamming them is "they are Jammed" I feel like it's unlikely I will do so.
     
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  8. Tourniquet

    Tourniquet TJC Tech Support

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    lately I've been running 2 of them and deploying them in full cover covering secondary approach lanes, and most of my opponents just avoid that part of the board. They're a good deterrent piece, especially if you mary camping out prone on a roof somewhere. Alternatively when you start pushing up with one to apply project threat on an enemy piece, you force them to deal with it otherwise something they care about is going to get jammed or hacked.

    TL;DR, They are a large order sink for your opponent either to avoid them or deal with them.
     
  9. loricus

    loricus Satellite Druid

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    The other thing I've learned from Moran is that a 12 BS Mimetism Combi is pretty good backup offensive equipment.
     
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  10. McNamara

    McNamara Merc Rep

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  11. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    At 23pts they're also cheap enough that if they do nothing except sit in a zone and deter your opponent from pushing something down that flank they're worth it.
     
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  12. TaHu

    TaHu Well-Known Member

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    All of tunguska stuff is expensive. Sure, 23 is not that much, but when you also have to take a link, kriza, spektrs specialists and some support it is hard to fit them in. I think it is better to push them forward with coordinated and block paths to consoles.
     
  13. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    Depends on the bigger risk. Pushing them to cover consoles leaves a gap in your flank. It's all contextual. Which is why they're great tools: either option works.
     
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  14. paraelix

    paraelix Seed Embryo Scholar

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    Maybe I'm tired... or maybe I'm misremembering Jammers. I'm confused where the Intuitive Attack part comes in >_>


    EDIT - had a read on my phone (wiki blocked on work pc), and they have Int Attack as a standard trait. Wow. Even more reason to hate Ghazi.
     
    #14 paraelix, Jul 9, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2018
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  15. sarf

    sarf Well-Known Member

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    I`ve finally tried Jammer Heckler yesterday and I`m impressed.
    Only one Jammer attack was made during the game, it missed but Heckler managed to create no-go bubble near building he embarked.
    But the best was FastPanda. On reliable forward deployed camo model it`s pure gold. I`ve managed to put Panda under opponents` TR bot denying it active shooting and allowing me do Imm-shoot combo.
     
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  16. loricus

    loricus Satellite Druid

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    Same with Moran, just because it didn't do numbers doesn't mean it didn't do anything.
     
  17. sarf

    sarf Well-Known Member

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    Sure thing. Point was about how great is FastPanda on this platform)
     
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  18. Wyrmnax

    Wyrmnax Well-Known Member

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    I'm actually finding it hard to not bring jammer heckler. They really create no-go zones for anything besides impetuous warbands ( Ghazi in particular). In Tunguska they are pretty much needed - it is the only way you have to slow down a enemy in the army. But on standard Nomads they become really oppressive when combined with the rest of the nomad midfield.
     
  19. jimbo slice

    jimbo slice Well-Known Member

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    I don't think they're too bad in vanilla. When I'm putting them into lists I find that I'm dropping some other mid-field unit to sub in the Heckler. What they do really well is make any camo marker that isn't deployed all the way up a difficult question for your opponent to answer, and provide an additional layer of defense in depth. But I don't think they present an insurmountable obstacle to overcome. The same kind of smart play tactics you'd use against any other camo marker work just as well agaisnt them. Maybe with the exception of using direct templates for Intuitive Attack, but if you're good at estimating ranges you can still stay out of ZoC and still hit them with the small template.
     
  20. Solar

    Solar Well-Known Member

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    Killer Hacker Heckler is actually awesome tbh. Assault Pistol and surprise shot, and obviously very mean v. Hackers.
     
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