1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

So about this "points formula"

Discussion in 'PanOceania' started by eciu, Jun 29, 2018.

Tags:
  1. meikyoushisui

    meikyoushisui Competitor for Most Ignored User

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2017
    Messages:
    1,803
    Likes Received:
    2,804
    It's really easy to take this position when there's a public moratorium on sharing it publicly, no? Just because there are 1-2 exceptions doesn't immediately disprove the existence of a formula.
     
    toadchild and CabalTrainee like this.
  2. psychoticstorm

    psychoticstorm Aleph's rogue child
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2017
    Messages:
    5,888
    Likes Received:
    11,260
    As long as they are politically bundled all together MO would never fit in, more importantly, MO are integrated in PanO military complex and PanO society at large, just leaving while not impossible, would be highly problematic, but if they left NA2 is not their place especially politically.
     
    A Mão Esquerda likes this.
  3. psychoticstorm

    psychoticstorm Aleph's rogue child
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2017
    Messages:
    5,888
    Likes Received:
    11,260
    I have to point out that, attempts to publicly dissect the formula and recreate it in our forums are strictly forbidden, you may discuss it and discuss what you think the formula is on bits but discussing the entire formula and attempting to recreate it is off limits.
     
  4. CabalTrainee

    CabalTrainee Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2018
    Messages:
    495
    Likes Received:
    740
    This policy is like the only thing which makes me think a formula exists. Without one existing this policy would be super redundant.
     
  5. psychoticstorm

    psychoticstorm Aleph's rogue child
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2017
    Messages:
    5,888
    Likes Received:
    11,260
    To be entirely honest I know the formula exists because I have some experience with it, the only two things I can say is that A it is more complex than people think it is and B Gutier is adamant in using the formula and nothing else.
     
    Zsolt, chromedog, derbrizon and 2 others like this.
  6. Andre82

    Andre82 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2017
    Messages:
    494
    Likes Received:
    559
    What an odd rule... Makes me wonder what is trying to be hidden.
    I assume CB would not object to the issue being examined in other forums...
     
  7. psychoticstorm

    psychoticstorm Aleph's rogue child
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2017
    Messages:
    5,888
    Likes Received:
    11,260
    The formula is proprietary and a company secret, nothing more nothing less.
     
    Ixidro, Flipswitch, Zsolt and 5 others like this.
  8. Benkei

    Benkei Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2017
    Messages:
    1,757
    Likes Received:
    2,443
    LoL so pretentious
     
    meikyoushisui likes this.
  9. Stiopa

    Stiopa Trust The Fuckhead

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2017
    Messages:
    4,237
    Likes Received:
    9,555
    Are NA2 an alliance by definition? Because that would unnecesarily restrict what can be added there. I see it more like a "misc." category.
     
    Barrogh, toadchild and Nemo No Name like this.
  10. Aldo

    Aldo Spare 15

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    1,216
    Likes Received:
    1,832
    Well, looking at Kurage it seems like CB wants NA2 to be Japan's puppets and little else, instead of an "all-you-can-fit" group for things that don't belong elsewhere.
     
    Dragonstriker likes this.
  11. Solar

    Solar Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2017
    Messages:
    3,006
    Likes Received:
    5,384
    Is it? The formula is proprietary and it is a company secret, it's their IP and they want to keep it under wraps. Understandably so, as well. Many of us work for companies who have software which is proprietary and is kept secret, not because it contains anything world-shattering (certainly mine doesn't), just because it protects the company IP from theft. People don't just bandy about codes, formulas, recipes etc in general when it's relevant to their income.
     
    Ixidro, Flipswitch, chromedog and 4 others like this.
  12. CabalTrainee

    CabalTrainee Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2018
    Messages:
    495
    Likes Received:
    740
    I'm not sure that is applicable here. You can't really steal a points formula for a tabletop game made by one single company. You can't copy that into other games to make money like you could copy a cooking recipe or code.

    I'm way more likely to believe the policy is in place for the health of the community. If we really knew exactly how it works we would only argue over what useless skill is overpriced etc. I'm pretty sure the forums would go totally toxic. Just look at this thread we are already shitting each other over a formula we don't know.
     
    Flipswitch, ijw and A Mão Esquerda like this.
  13. Solar

    Solar Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2017
    Messages:
    3,006
    Likes Received:
    5,384
    It would also be vaguely pointless to steal the calculation basis for working out an employee benefit, you couldn't really use it for anything at all.

    That doesn't mean that my company just hands them out. There is almost certainly a legal protection reason, but even if there isn't, I wouldn't do it anyway. And even if it wasn't for proprietary IP reasons etc, I wouldn't reveal it, because I don't think it'd be remotely good for the community or fanbase. All the discussion of the game would become arguments about the points system. Waste of time.
     
    Ixidro, chromedog and A Mão Esquerda like this.
  14. Stevo

    Stevo Member

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2018
    Messages:
    4
    Likes Received:
    11
    Considering that I've had to personally sign a binding Non-Disclosure Agreement over a pancake recipe, I must disagree.

    Just so I'm clear, for three years after I stopped working there, I was forbidden to discuss how a restaurant made its pancakes.

    I think that CB has every right to protect its IP and clearly has every right to regulate their own forums when it comes to such things. Privateer Press had similar rules regarding posting stats of models, especially upcoming releases.
     
    Magonus, chromedog, toadchild and 5 others like this.
  15. Benkei

    Benkei Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2017
    Messages:
    1,757
    Likes Received:
    2,443
    Y was talking more about all the "being adamant about using the formula", especially when it's obvious they have been gaming their own formula the same way a minmaxer would game a roleplaying system to make some uber character.

    This is all just my opinion, of course.
     
    Barrogh likes this.
  16. Benkei

    Benkei Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2017
    Messages:
    1,757
    Likes Received:
    2,443
    Because Japan is c00l, bro.
     
  17. Ginrei

    Ginrei Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    914
    Likes Received:
    428
    People most certainly can steal it. If I wanted to create a tabletop game this points formula is one piece of the puzzle. I could tweak or improve it as I see fit. Saves time and energy, which is money. Why do companies buy the Unreal engine? I think this formula is a great engine in the tabletop world... even if I would personally adjust some numbers here and there.

    The formula helps others directly compete with Infinity. Why on earth would CB want to help the competition? It doesn't matter how small a piece or how unimportant others may believe it to be. Someone spent time and effort, money, designing it. Just because some people can reverse engineer it doesn't mean they should post it for the world to see. Unfortunately CB can't really stop that from happening. Disapproving of it and banning it from their forums is perfectly justifiable to me.
     
    Barrogh, ambisinister and Wombat85 like this.
  18. Wombat85

    Wombat85 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2017
    Messages:
    410
    Likes Received:
    491
    Why not? I get the formula and I make a pike and shot game using it as balance. There are literally thousands of hours of CB resources into getting the formula right, tweaking it, balancing it. Those hours represent hours where financial nothing else was gained. To just hand over a formula that does a pretty good job at balance, in an industry where balance has been demonstrated hard to achieve, AND its what the consumer wants would be commiting Hari Kuri and waiting for GW or reaper to cut off your head.

    Ill reiterate what I have always maintained, just because you cant see how math provides the solution, doesn't mean its not underlying everything, it just means that your not creative enough to see it.
     
  19. CabalTrainee

    CabalTrainee Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2018
    Messages:
    495
    Likes Received:
    740
    You would have to pretty much steal so many mechanics for it too make sense it is ridiculous. You need a 2 different currency system (points + SWC), you need similar stats. You need similar attributtes. You need similar skills. You can't just throw this on any tabletop game. It wouldn't work unless you reall copy paste 90% of infinity. Putting points costs on units is actually the last thing you do after all other mechanics stand when you design a game. Stealing all the other mechanics which are already public for everyone to see is way more worth the money.
     
    Barrogh likes this.
  20. Wombat85

    Wombat85 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2017
    Messages:
    410
    Likes Received:
    491
    Except all the other mechanics are used throughout the industry. Overwatch, order pools, objective cards, CC, BS, Ph, Armor. These are all used extensivly, hacking is the one part of the game that is truely unique
     
  • About Us

    We are a company founded in 2001 in Cangas (Spain), and devoted to design and manufacture games and figures. Our main product, Infinity the Game, was born with the ambition to satisfy the most demanding audience, offering the best quality.

     

    Why are we here?

     

    Because we are, first and foremost, players.

  • Quick Navigation

    Open the Quick Navigation