Pano always felt like ‘Murica without ’Murica. Whole Hyperion style space Jesus is a bit off, but at least European players feel included. I really don’t think MO has a place in NAA.
I feel compelled to remind you that in the original fluff Yu Jing was a quite working panasian alliance, and japanese terrorist were a minority. We all know how that worked out, because writing complex and nuanced fluff is harder than caricaturizing entire cultures. Anyway, the power creep is a direct consequence of the catalogue bloat: every time you release a new sectorial, their vanilla faction gets stronger so there is much less of an incentive for playing sectorials instead of vanilla, so you have to make the new sectorial appeal-able by giving it uber cool links and stuff. Meanwhile the old sectorials/factions are left to rot.
My vision, that clearing the knights out of vanilla would allow, would be to have PanO HI based around 3 "chassis": "ORC" 4-4 MOV, ARM 4, BTS 3 "Mobility" 6-2 MOV, ARM 3, BTS 6, Multiterrain, Kinematica 1 "Guard" 4-4 MOV, ARM 5, BTS 6 Then layer equipment/skills to create different profiles and arm them appropriately. I'd like to see the PanO Mobility HI packing BSG, Panzerfautst, Blitzen and D-charges (Eclipse grenades!) Guard HI with Nanoscreen and Pulzar, carrying Breaker rifles (really double down on the theme) Mobility HI with CrazyKoalas/Madtraps and ADHL ORC HI with Holo 1, or Holo 2, or Neurocinetics and a MSR/HMG ORC HI with mech deployment and Auxbots, packing SMGs, BSGs and mines/drop bears (not all on the one profile, but you get the idea) Someone with an Auxbot toting a Jammer!
Well, the alternative to removing MO is straightforward; postpone releasing Varuna. PanO is balanced externally, but with other factions getting updates and new sectorials they'll increase their power level. We could keep up by adding new stuff, or by rebalancing existing units. Updated knights, expanded Auxbot range, Remotes integrated into select fireteams, some particular problem units fixed, a few new skills and weapons added here and there, and voila - PanO gets more interesting without changing its relative power level. And I'd gladly wait for Varuna a year or even two, if this scenario was to pass. edit: and for PanO-related NA2 we could see MagnaObra.
You have Bolts ;P <ok that was cruel, sorry ;P> Out of many impossible things, this is even more impossible. We are at "best" 3-4 months from Varuna release, which is faaar to close to suddenly "stop" it ;) Unless CB is really doing things "just in time" xD
ORC regiment with CC 20, MA1, Superjump and DA CCW , call them the 'Roos (even give them a superjumping Auxbot, Joey, who they'll graciously "lend" to MO for the Seraph)
I don’t think giving pan o all the toys, including alien tech, is going to fix the problems mentioned here. They’re not weak, they’re ‘boring.’ As has been previously mentioned, a lot of that I think stems from the faction’s “identity.” “We’ve got the best raw stats (as long as it’s not WIP)” is competitive but uninteresting. “We’ve got the best and most diverse TAGs” is hard to embrace because they’re all very expensive, but there’s a lot of room to work there. Don’t give them more HI loaded with gadgets, let Yu Jing keep that (Frankly they need to retain something with the CC half of their faction identity removed). Let’s make Pan O the mechanized faction. Give them some S5 Tags in the 50ish to 60ish point category instead of more HI. Heck, maybe even cheaper and/or smaller. (Probabltpy not smaller). Let Pan O have some TAG duos; bring an engineer or other specialist along. Like someone said earlier, give them aux bots with more robust options. (G syncs in general are a very good mitigation to expensive troops and low order count lists because they’re expendable. It’s a much more interesting solution to the problem than another netrod palette swap). Give them some more rems and let them form mixed links; let Pan O embrace the rem pres theme. Stuff like this will give more flexibility and variety in list building without being “which special rules/equipment do I want to bring today.”
I always thought PanO's thing was that they were Space Marines. All relatively the same with different load outs based on fluff. I'm going to over simplify here but... Is the consensus wanting them to be tweaked Nomads in blue power armor or wanting their barely useful profiles to be more useful? Is it possible players are just getting bored with PanO and want change for the sake of change? Or do some genuinely think it needs change outside updating poor profiles. I'm beginning to think CB should've shaken up PanO with the Uprising rather than Yu Jing. Maybe it's mini envy? Would anyone be satisfied with a new coat of paint in the form of miniature redesigns instead? Making the units look distinct without changing their profiles too much? I can certainly understand some being jealous of the new mini's being released for other factions. Or do you prefer the miniature range as is?
Its more that in generic Pano many of the units are useful only in their sectorial. The effective generic Pano units are just a handful of units. So generic Pano seems small and limited. Compared this to generic nomads, combine army, aradina, etc.
No. The common sentiment is that we want them to be just as interesting to play, but in a different way. More variety in available strategies, but variety achieved by building upon this faction's strengths.
A lot of it is just good internal balance too. There are always going to be units that shine in Sectorial, but are a lot less interesting in Vanilla. PanO feels like it's been hit especially hard by this phenomenon. Interestingly enough too, this isn't just about making existing units better, but just diversifying them so their roles are more distinct. Magister Knights are one of my favorite examples of this: AVA1 in Vanilla... But what if they were AVA3? What if they had Duo? I'd be very inclined to play more vanilla if I could get an advanced pseudo-warband, Dodging around with Hyper Dynamics, going for close combat or coordinated Panzerfaust shots. Very interesting. The Auxbot is another classic example too. It's meant to be an iconic for PanO, but is used by very few profiles. It's the ultimate way to take a ho-hum redundant profile, like basically all the knights, and suddenly make them pretty interesting as solo choices. g:synch is great. The last easy fix is just in weaponry. If PanO's emphasis is firepower, give us some utility in our firepower. We now have multiple units with Feurbachs and MULTI Marksman Rifles... These are PanO weapons, but are either rare or nonexistent in our arsenals. I guarantee more people would field Supulcher Knights in both Vanilla and MO if they had a DA ARO, or could hit out to 24 inches at +3.
@barakiel One thing I would add to Auxbot as well is at least them having a different variety of auxbots depending on units. Hell, would be interesting to see something similar to Guarda de Assalto where it is an HI with a bot that is different than the rest. Or at least some MI that has an auxbot that has something different than a flamethrower or so.
Definitely. I think it would be interesting to have a knight whose primary weapon system is -3 from 0-8, but is very good with support fire. As you say, something that isn't a Spitfire or a Combi of course. @TanakoSkyler22 Yeah, definitely different Auxbot types. Even if CB thinks that giving a g:synch flamethrower to basic knights is too powerful, we can give the bot some other application. Even if it had zero weapons at all, it would still be useful for its ability to detonate mines, bait AROs, and give those extra benefits in a Close Combat. Even theming it as being different than an Auxbot... Maybe a flying support drone with Minesweeper, Sniffer, or something else that's pretty benign, would still be very interesting and useful without upgrading the power curve of the HI too much.
