CC10 doesn't seem like a big deal to me. You're always shooting back if you're getting charged. If it's a surprise attack that's why they gave them Chain Colts right? Aside from TO units with Monofilament CCW (most things were not surviving that) you're probably going to get a chance to stand back up with some engineer help. At the absolute worst case they are dumping orders to kill them off 100%. As for PH10 I think you're probably just taking the hit and shooting back. At least that's what they seem to be built for. Good armor and multiple wounds with remote presence. If it's a long-range/out of LOS hit and you can't shoot back you take your 50/50 and hope the armor helps if you fail. With poor positioning and the right terrain layout someone is going to get a template on all of them but I think that's the case with any HI link in the midfield. Remote presence gives them a decent chance of killing the attacker and coming back. I think they are a steal for their points. They were pretty great when I played them. Opponent spent most of their orders trying to put them down for good.
Yeah I am finding them largely awesome tbh. Cheap and fast and mean. The Spitfire will be gold in Vanila.
Same reason why you should play any sectorial over vanilla - fireteams and avaliability. TJC adds quite a bit of strenght in the avaliable teams, as well as a couple of units that you can really want more avaliability off than you have on vanilla. The main draw is always fireteams.
Trolling with a Hollow Men linked team. While they have some clear weaknesses they also have some amazing strengths.
You realise that your own personal play style can differ from other players, right? And no amount of "These dudes are good" or "Try this guy with those" is likely to fundamentally change your gameplay preferences? Some Sectorials/Factions just won't do anything for you, and that is perfectly ok.
The reason I play Corregidor is because an Interventor, a Zero and a Morlock isn't worth losing Core and McMurrough. Everyone has their reasons, or they don't so they play Vanilla. That's why they are options.
Well, it depends. When your link is getting charged, that's probably not without Smoke assistance, otherwise you almost always eat a ton of shots and accomplish little. Then again, it's not like hypothetical CC 14-15 does a ton against things that tend to charge through smoke... On G:RP and engineering. It is my understanding that Tunguska, while having noticeable weaknesses, often requires you to attack it from at least 2 directions, and that's one of the possible reasons why lists would require that. In the context of mid-field presence though, it's generally not easy to bring engineering sources to a midfield link, even more so if it falls to something close-ranged that will likely stay there. But at least Hollow Men aren't as taxing in terms of revival as some other HI links, what's with them not requiring also a Doctor.
You can also get attacked from behind, where your turn to face is weak, or they can use token state or corner trick to get in. You can be like 6 inches from a corner and a token CC attacker can get past your DTW. Most CC attacks in my experience are not attempted if you can shoot a DTW on the way in unless the conditions support it.
All true statements. Plenty of ways to get into CC and murder things if you want to. I still don't think having a CC of 10 instead of 13-15 is going to stop me from playing Hollow Men.
It won't stop you, and it probably isn't worth as many points as it discounts, but that doesn't mean it's not a disadvantage to be considered.
Link teams will always be a big deal. Whether it's a cheaper link of Securitates, or a more expensive link of Hollowmen, or something in between... Links are great for projecting force on the tabletop. They allow for offensive or defensive play that Vanilla simply can't replicate. If you want that type of gunfighting competence in your army, you can play TJC. There are some good secondary bonuses too. Sixth Sense L2 on a Hacker can be critical in an army that wants to maximize Hacking AROs. In a lot of matchups, it 100% makes the difference between your Hackers doing heavy work, or acting as a linetrooper that costs twice as much. Other than that, I think the incentive for Vanilla is big. TJC relies a lot on characters, and those characters are all available in Vanilla (even Perseus and Raoul, which surprises me a bit.) You don't get the interesting link options for those two, but it's likely you weren't linking Raoul anyway, and Perseus' main strengths (smoke tossing and CC) are not necessary in Vanilla anyway, since they have other units that do that job. So yes, I'd put this one squarely in the camp of "play TJC if you think TJC is cool, and see a link you want to field."
AVA2 Szalamandra's, in all seriousness... I play a faction or sectorial because they have a theme or options I want. I can't imagine you need anyone's help to decide that as it should be entirely personal. Which leads me to assume you simply want to know if they are better at winning games, I don't have that answer. I can just tell you what's already on Army and different to how Onyx tries to win games. JCT has much better HI options, WIP15 specialists, Jammers, Motorcycles, Puppets, Smoke, AD Repeater, Securitates, and whatever else i skimmed past. Honestly, because you want to, is the best reason. I've never chosen a faction because of someone else's reasons.
Raoul isn't available in Vanilla. This is a big deal, he definitely shouldn't be and he is very strong IMO. I feel kind of bad for PanO players. Raoul, Knauf and Emily are exactly the kind of cool Hexahedron agents that would work as a mechanical template for more interesting units in their faction, but they are essential just Nomad Sectoral characters. But yeah I think there's definitely a lot to be found in the TJC cores.
Very true, Raoul is a bit of a monster. It's optimization like this that pisses players off about the point system. Every drop trooper could be irregular and it wouldn't affect a thing. You're going to spend that order on them, no question. I would love to have Rasyat's be in the same league as Raoul. Similar profiles and pts but Raoul is still miles ahead in power and a specialist to boot. It's tough to ignore that kind of profile and consider factions as a whole.
Raoul being irregular when he's an AD trooper is definitely a bit cheeky yeah. I mean I did recently want to use him as part of a Combined Order with some regular dudes but I mean, ehhhh, nbd. Being several points cheaper is definitely welcome. I doubt it's more than 3-4pts but that's not to be sniffed at is it.
That's what Bandits are for. Gives you something to co-ordinate with Raoul. Also they're awesome. And yeah Irregular seems to be 3-4pts
Not bad at all, then top it off with NWI, Mimetism, and Specialist. That would be such a massive improvement for my Morats... yes mine, no one else's :P
Off-topic, but... In general, that's probably a good estimation. That leaves us with some oddities like how Kasym Beg either pays 6-7 points for +1 SWC bonus on his Lt. profile (which other Lt's like that don't pay, or at least not all of them), or pays 10 points for regular status.
