Here's a hypothetical: A five-man team of dudes rolls up to a wall that leads to a command room. All of them are in base-to-base with it, in a line, like: OOOOO ------------ When the leader declares CC Attack on the wall, he gets the burst bonus for CC in a fireteam, which is +1B for each person engaged and +1PH for each person engaged as well. So he's swinging 5 times with PH+5 for DMG against the wall's ARM 10. Ten rolls later, the wall is destroyed and they can climb through to the other side with a short skill. Anything wrong there? Checking through the rules, this specific example's rules are spread across a lot of different pages with some strange caveats I'm not sure are intended (for example, Fireteam bonuses in CC only apply to 'Engaged' targets, and 'Engaged' specifies enemy troopers). It seems like it's fairly RAI, but is it entirely RAW? I want to make sure that this strat checks out fully since I might use it with William Wallace's berserking EXP CCW in the future-- blow open a wall, shove a Volunteer with a chain rifle through, reform the link, shove another Volunteer through... Anyways, thanks for reading!
Yup. You seem to have a solid grasp on the issue. No there's not a definitive answer. I'm onboard with it: make TM Duos useful! IIRC G:Sync doesn't have quite the same issue and gets the B and PH bonuses.
Synch has the same issue, it also depends on being "engaged in the same CC" Personally I don't think mechanically that any form of ganging up bonuses, be it from link team (whose CC bonuses are not described under "Fireteam Bonuses"), coordinated order nor Ghost rule, will apply for attacks on non-troopers.
Yeah, but only kinda. Fireteams specifically call out the Engaged state whereas with Gsync you can argue it's merely a general expression. See the difference between 'engaged in CC' and 'Engaged with the adversary' below. Fireteams in CC: "In Close Combat, whether in the Active or Reactive Turn, when several members are engaged in the same CC, only the Team Leader trooper will perform the CC Roll, gaining a MODof +1 to his B and +1 to the PH Attribute for Damage for each Fireteam member Engagedwith the adversary." The alternative with G-Sync is that they aren't all "engaged in the same CC" and therefore act independently: basically it changes an Uberfalls from B4 PH17 DA to B3 PH13 DA. Personally I'm of the opinion that both should get the bonuses.
Heh. I'm of the opinion that both should get the bonus but that neither does. As far as the definition of a close combat goes, it is poorly defined, but the closest I can find is found in "Interacting with a Close Combat" where it is implied as being defined as being in base to base contact with an enemy, and those two concepts are properly defined. http://infinitythewiki.com/en/Interacting_with_a_Close_Combat Then again, if going strictly with definitions, close combat doesn't work against objects and it's not even clear where the access point is supposed to be placed.
what "it" ? asking as when you do destroy it you place a narrow gate marker on that spot. The spot is "it" and I don't think you have all 5 engaged with that spot. For the gang-up bonus the "CC combat against several enemies" rule which is where you get the bonus sets a hard cap as too how many extras can be counted. Even though anyone can arrange 6 25mm circle around a 25mm circle, the cap is 4; and the cap is 6 for a 40mm base or wider. I don't know how big of base the wall is, but I don't think it has a base. As for objective marker though they do have a base and would allow to count up to 6 troops in base contact with it. Coming back to the wall, since the narrow gate is 25mm I'd count it* as a 25mm but everyone must touch that 25mm spot, so the maximum assuming the wall extends both way would be 2 trooper on one side and 2 trooper on the other side. Could be easier to fit in more trooper on a corner. * I personally would do it as such, but i cannot cite any rule. It just make more sense for me that everyone involved in ganging up on the wall should be touching the resulting gate marker where they focus their hits. I don't see why you would have 6 models spread across a wall section and from hitting it all together only create a 25mm placed somewhere along the 6" lenght.
You also get the 'all at the same time' thing going on: since the terrain is not an enemy Trooper Movement doesn't stop when you get B2B with 'it'. This means that you can cycle an entire link through B2B with a single point. As Robcock points out you hit a maximum bonus, but there's no requirement to be in B2B at resolution unless you're the trooper declaring the CC Attack (due CC attack requirement, which must be met at the moment of declaration and at resolution).
I would like to point out that outside of CC Attribute, close combat (or "CC") is defined by Engaged state, which in turn means being B2B with a trooper. That is, if I remember this correctly - at the end of last year I tried to clarify certain things for myself and failed to find any hard definition of close combat that isn't either fancy name for Engaged state or a name of Attribute. There's a caveat that for the purpose of applying CC Special Skills, close combat is defined as making legal CC Attack declaration (generally, or via scenario rules permission, see Looting and Sabotaging vs Martial Arts clarification) unless otherwise specified, because design team and Ijw say so. It's entirely possible that it's not exclusively for the purpose of applying CC Special Skills either. This may or may not be applicable in the context of the thread in the latter case.
I knew this would start a discussion. Looks like I have another thing to clarify before the game on a per-player basis!
Honestly it doesn't really come up that often. I've had it occur once, 2 X TMs beating up on a door in Armoury.
