I've loyally played Bahram for years, but have been steadily losing my passion for playing them (especially as the meta around me has turned into almost exclusively Limited Insertion.) After an especially brutal tournament, I've decided to start anew, sell my beloved Bahram boys, and go for either Aleph or Starco. My initial list has started from simply wanting to play with an Asura and Proxies. Any feedback would be greatly appreciated. As for my tastes, I'm more interested in Vedic, and I'm definitely willing to sacrifice min/maxing for cool models that are fun to play. I also would love to try a Marut-centered list if anyone has any recommendations. Thanks! ALEPH ────────────────────────────────────────────────── 10 ASURA Lieutenant Hacker (Hacking Device Plus UPGRADE: Redrum) Combi Rifle, Nanopulser / Pistol, AP CCW. (0.5 | 72) ATALANTA MULTI Sniper Rifle + TinBot E (Spotter) / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 39) PROXY Mk.1 Hacker (Hacking Device) Combi Rifle, Nanopulser / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 14) PROXY Mk.4 Heavy Rocket Launcher, Submachine Gun, Nanopulser / Pistol, Knife. (2 | 20) DAKINI Tacbot Combi Rifle / Electric Pulse. (0 | 13) DAKINI Tacbot Combi Rifle / Electric Pulse. (0 | 13) NAGA (Minelayer) Boarding Shotgun, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 27) DASYU Boarding Shotgun, Nanopulser, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 34) SOPHOTECT Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 31) YUDBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3) ZAYIN Rebot HMG / Electric Pulse. (1 | 26) LAMEDH Rebot Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8) 6 SWC | 300 Points Open in Infinity Army
Asura is ... well, not the best at the time. Your choice here, she is viable, but expensive for what she does. And given that you're not taking any form of smoke, you're wasting Atalanta and Asura's MSV a bit. No Mk.2 proxy ? You're missing something. You should pick one of the two profiles, they are both very good. As for Mk.1 hacker, he does not bring much since you're already taking a HD+, and you have only one remote to buff. I would downgrade the dasyu into a naga and take a Mk.2 hacker instead. Overall, for a limited insertion, you may be somewhat lacking. Only one high burst weapon, no smoke, no infiltrating specialist, and low synergy between the models.
Thanks for the feedback. Can the Dakini's not be buffed? Could definitely bring in Chain Myrmidons for cheap smoke, make the changes you recommended, and also swap in Mk. 3 or 4 for Spitfire/HMG. My attachment to the idea of the Asura may just be reactionary to leaving Bahram (durable, MSV, etc.)
They can, but you only have Combi Rifles to buff. Not something you want to bother as a rule, just if the occasional situation happens. Get the Dakini HMG. Stay away from Mk.III. I know some people swear by it, but it's a really weak piece with some minor movement advantage, and for almost the same price you can get a tougher HMG. Yeah, Asura is not really all that durable, and MSV3 is overpriced. If you want a good MSV assault piece, Deva MSV2+Spitfire is less than half the price for most of the advantages. There's also surprising Agema Mk.12.
TRAITOR!!!!!!! I'm actually curious what you grab. I started the Druze sectoral and found it a little too restrictive to after having access to everything Haqq. StarCo looks like it has more options than DBS. My concern with grabbing a full faction is my self control and need to get everything. If there was a decent fixed list of models for Aleph I would consider getting that also.
Thanks for the advice. Cutting Asura would certainly open up a lot of points. Would love to play with more Agema units, so sounds good to me. Maybe going hard on a HMG-heavy list would be worth it and also taking advantage of the AVA 2 for the Zayin? Ha—I know! But the urge to purge is strong (also it'll help so I can budget to not have to fight the collector gene with a new faction.) StarCo is feeling more versatile (here's the list if you're interested), but I'm also more attracted to the Aleph ability suite. If there was a 300 pt box for Vedic I'd be tempted to go that route.
I'm not in favour of double Zayin lists, but they can work. In my opinion, one Dakini HMG and one Zayin already provide you with good HMG support. Consider also Garuda Spitfire or HMG; they get +1 BS over Dakini, but cost much more due to AD:Combat Jump, which is a double-edged sword as it makes it harder to deploy upgrade programs on them. Also, don't overlook Dakini MULTI Sniper for ARO duties. Low BS, but it comes with Mimetism, can be buffed with either Marksmanship L2 or Burst 2 ARO, and it is quite cheap.
Vanilla Aleph listbuilding 101: Grab Danavas Hacker+ (25pts, 0.5SWC). Grab Posthumans of your choice, but include always 3, and one is the Mk2 (either profile, depending on role). My setup is MK4 HRL+SMG for ARO duty, MK1 doctor (NWI mimetic specialist that can self-heal) and MK2 AHD (HD troop with TO camo you can have there without losing the order). Asura is for Multi or Spitfire atm. You can go for "Armored ASSault" with Asura Spitfire, MK4 HRL and Mk3 Spitfire (but you are out of SWC now!!!). Or go for the Marut directly. Add 1-2 Myrmidons (16 points, chain rifle) for throwing out smoke and melee to death anything that closes to your MSV2-3 girls. These guys are the ASS-Guards! Deva Functionaries (+devabot or +sensor) for Lt messing, and useful tricks. Spitfire Deva is a good offensive piece, quite cheap for what he does, but if you are tight on SWC the Mk12 Agema is a cheaper (and more fragile) option. Nagas or Dasyus are a thing, depending on the mission the Ekdromoi are too (and Diomedes is quite useful for killy roles). Scylla can really up the Hacking game of Aleph, specially if backed by 2 H+ (2 Devas, or a Deva + Asura). Her primary use is, however, to get into the midfield with her 2 Devabots in Cybermask state (flamethrowers ftw!). Best dakinis: HMG, paramedic and basic (roles, respectively: killy/heavy stepstone you want to give supportware to, fast specialist for Doctor/paramedic favored missions, and stopping stones in the midfield you leave there in Suppresive Fire for a -9 to enemy rolls). Grab some Sophotects. Sure, they are overpriced specialists, but they can heal themselves, or heal others, and repair Dakinis. Have a Myrmidon Officer at hand. Chain of Command is too useful here, and gives you another specialist that can also do stuff... like throwing smoke (eclipse if she carries a BSG, normal if she carries a combi). -12 Sup Fire hunter! Thorakitai FO are another good piece, they just want to be on the flanks to bock AD-1 or 2 troops. And blind people. And go into Sup Fire.
My first answer was a bit short since i was short on time, sorry about that. If you like Asura you can still use her, but she has her issues now. If you're building for limited insertion with vanilla Aleph, you will need efficiency, because you won't have fireteams for an easy order management. But Aleph has many strong points in limited insertion. Many bodies: 10 orders does not mean 10 bodies in Aleph. Enjoy the 3-bodies posthumans (with 2 "disposables" bodies), Scylla or Drakios disposable but powerful HFT ... And don't forget that if you hold the posthuman during the deployment phase, you hold the 3 bodies, not just one ... Powerful infiltrators: Our infiltrators are expensive. But they are just that strong. Nagas may be only normal camo, but they can win games by themselves. Dasyus have the unusual combination of NWI and CH:TO. Thrasymedes, Mk.5 FO, are good at both fighting and scoring. One of my favorite is the FO naga, who can both score as a specialist, kill things with surprise attack combi rifle, and stop things with that disgusting WIP 14 flash pulse. Powerful ADs: We have among the best AD of the game. Garudas are inexpensive but dangerous troublemakers. They may be remotes, but BS12 mimetic AD with powerful weapons are game changing. Even the "modest" BSG garuda is a natural born killer. The ekdromoi have PH13, which is high for an AD troop and allows you to use AD4 with good chances, plus they have stealth. Diomedes is just a monster, with PH13, stealth, good weaponry, and a very powerful NWI on that kind of troop. Many synergies: Synergies are good because they mean your troop will perform better, so you'll use less orders to do the same thing. And we have many synergies. Smoke + MSV2-3.the obvious one. We have very good smoke throwers, and very good MSV. Do the math. Danava or EVO + REM: assisted fire Danava + many things: white noise for MSV hunting EVO (or danava but it costs 1 more order) + Ekdromoi/Diomedes: enjoy PH16, landing at 80% EVO + Scylla: B2 ARO on IMP HFT, really ? And Scylla is a KHD, if needed, and her bots gives you a huge but safe (cybermask) repeater area Machaon + yudbot + Machaon's eclipse: who said yudbots were just to do some distant heal ? Let's bring them close Pick what you want ! Ho, by the way, i'm not responsible of you losing friends because they lose to Aleph's dirty tricks :)
@Jetjagaa I understand you are coming from a sectorial that lacks MSV2/3. #metoo As an original Ariadna player I overestimated the usefulness of MSV3, too, but I can assure you MSV2 is more than enough to get s*** done. I strongly recommend to settle with the fairly wide MSV2 range (Atalanta is my darling, but Agemas and Devas are not bad either and much cheaper) instead. At least go a test drive with them and Asuras. You should proxy them a couple of times and go shopping afterwards. I hope it helps. For the record: Yes, MSV3 just destroys Ariadna camo spam. Yes, it has its uses. The big question is if it is worth the (hefty) price tag.
Thanks for all of the awesome feedback! After meditating on your combined advice, these are the lists I've been tossing back and forth. If I'm being stubborn about wanting to play an Asura (and keeping it as Vedic as possible minus 1 model): Asura Suboptimal ────────────────────────────────────────────────── 10 DEVA Lieutenant Combi Rifle, Nanopulser + Devabot / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 27) DEVABOT Heavy Flamethrower / Electric Pulse. (4) ASURA MULTI Rifle, Nanopulser / Pistol, AP CCW. (0 | 68) DANAVAS Hacker (Hacking Device Plus. UPGRADE: Maestro) Combi Rifle + Pitcher / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 25) PROXY Mk.2 Hacker (Assault Hacking Device) Boarding Shotgun, Nanopulser / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 21) PROXY Mk.4 Heavy Rocket Launcher, Submachine Gun, Nanopulser / Pistol, Knife. (2 | 20) PROXY Mk.1 Doctor (MediKit) Combi Rifle, Nanopulser / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10) MYRMIDON Chain Rifle, Nanopulser, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, AP CCW. (0 | 16) SOPHOTECT Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 31) YUDBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3) NAGA (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 28) DAKINI Tacbot HMG / Electric Pulse. (1 | 21) DAKINI Tacbot HMG / Electric Pulse. (1 | 21) LAMEDH Rebot Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8) 5 SWC | 299 Points Open in Infinity Army And then if I listen to reason... Fine, I'll cut the Asura... ────────────────────────────────────────────────── 10 DEVA Lieutenant Combi Rifle, Nanopulser + Devabot / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 27) DEVABOT Heavy Flamethrower / Electric Pulse. (4) DEVA (Multispectral Visor L2) Spitfire, Nanopulser / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 33) ATALANTA MULTI Sniper Rifle + TinBot E (Spotter) / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 39) DANAVAS Hacker (Hacking Device Plus. UPGRADE: Maestro) Combi Rifle + Pitcher / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 25) PROXY Mk.4 HMG, Nanopulser / Pistol, Knife. (2 | 25) PROXY Mk.5 (Forward Observer) 2 Submachine Guns, Nanopulser, E/M Grenades / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10) PROXY Mk.1 Doctor (MediKit) Combi Rifle, Nanopulser / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10) MYRMIDON Chain Rifle, Nanopulser, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, AP CCW. (0 | 16) MYRMIDON Chain Rifle, Nanopulser, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, AP CCW. (0 | 16) SOPHOTECT Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 31) YUDBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3) YUDBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3) GARUDA Tacbot Combi Rifle / Electric Pulse. (0 | 22) DASYU Hacker (Assault Hacking Device) Combi Rifle, Nanopulser / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 40) 5.5 SWC | 300 Points Open in Infinity Army
Errr, why MULTI Rifle? Cut one of the Dakinis, and use the SWC to upgrade Asura to Spitfire. Go all hog, that's by far the best profile. Then, why Proxy Mk.I Doctor? You already have the Sophotect. Take Mk.V FO, waaaay better. And finally, you have 20 points left (one of the Dakini HMGs we cut). I would suggest dropping it to Dakini Paramedic, and using the remaining points to upgrade the Proxy Mk.IV to HMG or if you really want the HRL, then instead of Dakini Paramedic take the Daleth FO bot and another Yudbot. Not bad, although again, whats with the Doctor... Also, Dasyu AHD? Ugh. I'd suggest cutting the Dasyu down to FO (gives you 4 points AND makes Dasyu have mines). Then remove one of the Yudbots (3), downgrade Garuda to Boarding Shotgun (1) and Deva Lt Devabot to Deva Lt Sensor (3) which will give us 11 points to upgrade Proxy Mk.I Doctor to Proxy Mk.II AHD. :) At least, these are my suggestions.
Breaking news: I would seriously consider including Andromeda. (OK she is not vedic, but still!...) The extra order for her being the datatracker looks handy. Huhh I should not post early in the morning. :-(
Isn't the spitfire a high burst weapon ? Your deva MSV2 is already good enough :) Or Asura/spitfire if you want to take her (she's good you know, just so expensive it's hard to have a good return on the investment) You should balance your active and reactive pieces too. For example, if you take several actives troops like Atalanta and a deva MSV2, take the Mk.4 rocket launcher instead of the HMG.