SP into Ariadna

Discussion in 'ALEPH' started by Tourniquet, Jun 13, 2018.

  1. Tourniquet

    Tourniquet TJC Tech Support

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    I've been having issues playing into Ariadna (mostly USARF) with SP, this due primarily to being out numbered severely and getting drowned in models, cheap stuff that ignores or mitigates defensive tools through the use of massive burst and DTWs (infiltrating grunts, desperadoes, grunt link HMG, etc.). Historically I've played nomads and therefore had access to tools to slow them down, but in SP I'm lacking things like morans and zeroes. it probably doesn't help that all my lists end up being single combat group which just magnifies these problems. I'm putting this all down to inexperience with the faction.

    TLDR;
    Need some advice on how to effectively construct a phalanx list, and how to deal with being extremely out numbered.
     
  2. Cry of the Wind

    Cry of the Wind Well-Known Member

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    Go into army and select ODD from skills and equipment. Those things mess me up all the time. Get some of those models in the right place in suppression and there isn't much that can shift them with USARF in my experince. Use something like Achilles to gun down things with safety and an MSV2 ARO piece placed to protect you from those Desperadoes and the things that follow them. I've had a single Thrasymedes placed well in supression basically lock down an entire side of the table and win a game single handly against me. A grunt in a link with an HMG is rolling 5 shots hitting on 5's against ODD supression in cover with full link. You shoot back 3 dice on 9's or better fairly often which is decent odds. Just don't cover the table, only focus on the mission objectives from angles that can't be reached from the USARF deployment zone.
     
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  3. yoink101

    yoink101 Chandra SpecOps Complaint Department

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    The biggest things I worry about with phalanx against usarf are flamethrowers. Infiltrating grunts are the worst. To counter them, going first is the best option. That’s not always possible, so here are some other things I’ve learned.

    ODD is really good. Usarf only has a couple msv 1 unites, which means that your ODD mixed with ariadna’s poor bs overall is going to create a bunch of lopsided gun fights in your favor.

    Smoke. If you’re running a couple of myrmidon link teams and your opponent finally gets a situation where you could actually loose a gunfight, remember that you can always throw smoke on 16s. Now, be careful with this as you may give your opponent an easy way to get one of those flamethrowers close enough to cause a problem for you. Which leads us to...

    Agemas. They’re good. Their low burst can be a liability though. But you have lots of smoke in your army to make the msv2 really count. I tend to use my Agema defensively. I never have it look out at my opponent’s deployment zone, because then a linked grunt will kill it. I always have it watch my deployment zone to keep out warbands and those aggravating infiltrating grunts. All varieties can be good. Sniper, missile, Atalanta, and Teucer all have hard hitting weapons that will almost always make short work of warbands or grunts. As long as you place it so that it can be difficult for your opponent to engage at close range. The mk12 Agema is solid for putting in suppressive fire towards the middle of your deployment zone, again, as long as it can’t be seen from the other side of the table. Worst case scenario, your opponent has to spend a bunch of orders to get a solid attack piece in position to kill your Agema. We’ll i guess the worst case scenario is an impersonator or Ko Dali getting up in your business.

    With that in mind, overlapping AROs are king here. You’ll almost always be shooting at an advantage, so make your opponent shoot you on his turn. Don’t stand up watching your opponent’s deployment zone so that he can out range you with that linked sniper, instead have your fireteams watch the middle of the table. Phoenix and thrasymedes are both amazing at this. The rocket launchers are super dangerous and ODD makes them really tough for Ariadna to beat without flamethrowers. Make sure each team has one or two models from other teams covering them though. If one team needs to dodge a flamethrower, you want someone else to be covering them so the attacker can’t keep pressing the attack.

    Don’t be afraid of your templates. Sometimes, if your opponent has you in a bind, the right answer is to hit it with a nanopulser. Almost everything in the army has a chainrifle or nanopulser. Stopping the rampage is often more important than one model surviving.
     
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  4. Nenyx

    Nenyx Well-Known Member

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    Remember that MSV is only one counter for ODD. The worst thing for an expensive ODD is a HFT. Other templates (mines, chain rifles ...) are good too. And even grenades ... If you are to take a -6 to hit anyway, better use speculative fire to try and hit several troops without any return fire. Myrmidons have a superior PH, but if they are in suppressive fire they will have to choose between dodge and staying in suppressive.

    In my experience, agemas are not that good vs Ariadna. They have no mimetism or camo and MSV2 doesn't protect from surprise shot, so if they stay for ARO duty, they can be easily shot down by a tank hunter, an speznatz or something. You can always use a chainrifle myrmidon to try an ARO smoke for the agema, that is, if the agema survive the first order. It's better to deploy them carefully.

    SMG Thorakites may be good too. Through they don't have ODD, they are cheap, have a very good weapon for suppressive fire, and a good armor for a 12-13 pt mini.
     
  5. Káosz Brigodéros

    Káosz Brigodéros Vanguard, Inc.

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    Short answer: Achilleus.
    I can second pretty much everything what Cry of the Wind said.
    Make no mistake: Ariadna is a fairly tough opponent because we are pretty good in exploiting SP's (few) weaknesses.
    Ariadna in general and USARF in particular tend to field a huge number of DTWs (USARF is dubbed for ARM3 flame army for a reason) negating ODD. (And check out the chances of a surprise shooting Spetsnaz killing... generally anybody...)
    Ariadna is loaded with fire, shock and antipersonnel mines negating NWI.
    Spamming cheerleaders has always been a strenght of Ariadna (well before it was cool). It is of little surprise you are outnumbered.
    Now we can deduct what can work against Ariadna.
    Since most Ariadna list rely on a relatively large number of cheerleaders finding a method to effectively kill them helps you a lot. Send a highly mobile and/or AD trooper in his DZ and start killing his cheerleaders. They will die by the truckload. To do this you will need an ample oder pool, so start watering up your list with Netrods. It is not sexy or spectacular but been on the other end of the table, I did not like it. Expect your opponent to downplay his losses. Don't be fooled. Every single trooper killed is one less confirmed kill for a Spetsnaz.
    Notice that SP can field a 15-rder list consisting of 4 fireteams, Atalanta and two netrods. SP is not bad at spamming order and spending them in a fairly efficient way. I am not saying SP can beat Ariadna in our own game, but SP is not seriously handicapped.
    The other good method is fielding something your opponent is just unable to deal with. Marut & Achilleus are both troopers Ariadna has a pretty hard time dealing with. Send him upfields and kill everyone. (Yup, Marut is vanilla Aleph.) Use the Lt order to enter SF mode at the end of the rampage. In case you do not go first, watch out for werewolves in space! A wolfpack can get to your precious little blondie and has a relatively good chance chewing him up. A multilayer net of ARO pieces is a must. (Not that SP were lacking in this area but I enjoy telling people the obvious.)
    MSV2 looks like a good idea (negating all our pesky little Ariadnan tricks) but a good opponent will start the game killing your MSV2 trooper. (Hey, that's why I bring at least two Spetsnaz!)
    Important sidenote: Ariadna lacks MSV2 totally, consequently using smoke extensively will hose your opponent quite effectively. If the mission is button-pushing, smoke the field up and do the mission!
    Camo markers should be discovered and shot from a safe (at least 9') distance. Indeed you forego the +3 bonus but this will protect you from nasty surprises in the form of a mine or Chasseur's flamethrower. Again this is pretty order intensive but necessary. Bring 'em Netrods!
    Keep in mind: camo markers in the midfield are mostly short-range threats, those in the enemy DZ tend to be long-rande threat (or decoys). Treat them accordingly!
    I hope this helps!
    Edit: Ninjas, ninjas everywhere!
     
  6. Zandramaas

    Zandramaas Member

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    Another option is to bring a good amount of orders and ARO pieces yourself. For Example:

    [​IMG] Steel Phalanx
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]10
    [​IMG] MACHAON Lieutenant Combi Rifle, Nanopulser, Eclipse Grenades / Pistol, DA CCW. (0.5 | 38)
    [​IMG] PHOENIX Heavy Rocket Launcher, Nanopulser, Smoke Grenades / Heavy Pistol, DA CCW. (2 | 40)
    [​IMG] MYRMIDON Chain Rifle, Nanopulser, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, AP CCW. (0 | 16)
    [​IMG] MYRMIDON Chain Rifle, Nanopulser, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, AP CCW. (0 | 16)
    [​IMG] NETROD Electric Pulse. (0 | 4)
    [​IMG] NETROD Electric Pulse. (0 | 4)
    [​IMG] ALKÊ Spitfire, Nanopulser / Pistol, CCW. (1.5 | 25)
    [​IMG] THORAKITES (Forward Observer, 360º Visor) Submachine gun, Chain Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 13)
    [​IMG] THORAKITES (Forward Observer, 360º Visor) Submachine gun, Chain Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 13)
    [​IMG] THORAKITES (Forward Observer, 360º Visor) Submachine gun, Chain Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 13)

    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]6
    [​IMG] EKDROMOS Chain Rifle, Nanopulser / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 20)
    [​IMG] AGÊMA Marksman MULTI Sniper Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 30)
    [​IMG] THRASYMEDES (Fireteam: Enomotarchos) Submachine gun, Light Rocket Launcher, Nanopulser, Stun Grenades / Pistol, Shock CCW. (0.5 | 30)
    [​IMG] THORAKITES (Forward Observer, 360º Visor) Submachine gun, Chain Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 13)
    [​IMG] THORAKITES (Forward Observer, 360º Visor) Submachine gun, Chain Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 13)
    [​IMG] THORAKITES (360º Visor) Submachine gun, Chain Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12)

    6 SWC | 300 Points

    Open in Infinity Army

    You have the two Thorakite link teams spread out, set out for as much overlapping ARO lanes as possible. Longer range you have flash pulses, shorter range the smg/DTWs. Where possible spread them out enough that and rambo DTW's can only hit one member at a time, so you can either trade fairly equally or at least not lose two models to one DTW. These also work well to protect against certain assault pieces like Van Zant as they have the 360 visors. I would usually expose two (maybe 3) of each link for active AROs, keeping the leaders (Alke and Thras) hidden. If you lose some it doesnt matter so much, and if they're going to die to an infiltrating grunt for example, they have 3 armor so they may tank the hit and the double CR back should kill the grunt.

    Keep the Myrmidon Link team and the Agema hidden (out of LoS), they are mainly for active turn only. Also, consider where the infiltrating grunts may turn up and whether a Van Zant may appear behind you. Don't forget, with things like the Myrmidon link, I usually consider one of the two base myrmidons to be a "minesweeper" send him out to tank mines because it doesn't really matter if he dies. Or you can move up one of the Thorakite links up first.

    You also have a lot of specialists, with some in all of the links so all can potentially capture objectives. The downside being you don't have a wide variety of specialist (only FO, a doctor and a Spec Op)

    You have an AD troop to try and kill their cheerleaders, if you're willing to drop the two netrods in the main group, you can upgrade the Ekdromos to a Combi and put him and the Agema in Group 1.

    Don't forget, against his camo tokens, you can take them with the Agema (MSV2), but intuitive attacks with DTWs work well, especially with ALEPHs all round decent WIP.
     
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  7. barakiel

    barakiel Echo Bravo Master Sergeant

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    Ajax is actually a really nice tool vs Ariadna.

    Is that Camo token a mine or a Chasseur? Send Ajax to find out. With his PH, ARM, multiple Wounds, he's got a really high probability of Dodging/Tanking whatever's hiding under that token, and his Combi Rifles are more than enough firepower for chewing down low ARM, 1 Wound opposition in the midfield. He's got no ODD to begin with, so you don't have to worry about it getting burnt off. He's very good at clearing a path for the rest of his Enomotarchos team.

    Sensor/Sniffer bots. Don't spend Orders Discovering enemies one at a time. It's not a good way to use Orders.

    Diomedes. This guy doesn't get enough credit, but he's the original Raoul Spector pseudo 2-wound AD badass. He can shrug off a chain rifle hit easily, has Super Jump and Stealth to outmanuever AD defenders, and he'll go through a backline of Muls and Line Kazaks like it's nothing. If an enemy spots the hole in your deployment and keeps his minelayers back to defend, that'll open up the midfield and buy you some maneuvering room. If he starts revealing Spetsnaz from Camo to try and drop you, that's still a net gain since you're learning who is who. Win/win either way... Just watch out for Shock and T2.
     
  8. Tourniquet

    Tourniquet TJC Tech Support

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    Thanks for all the input, definitely given me a bunch to think about and tryout next game night.

    Though in regards to achilles I find that he usually suffers death by a thousand paper cuts as the odd wound here and there sneaks in with out him being overly impactful, though this may just be user error. As for AD its something I've considered, but just not sure on how viable it would be in this instance. I love AD troops a lot but tend to discount things that aren't tomcats and hellcats.

    Again thanks for the help.
     
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