Considering we have troopers like Akali and crusaders in the same faction, Metros and Volunteers, Foxtrots and Chasseurs, Govads and Djanbazan, Nisse and Bagh Mari, etc, I don't think CB are particularly worried about redundancy in vanilla factions.
I think if you look at Pan-o and Nomads CB cares little for redundancy or straight up inferiority when profiles are in vanilla in comparison to each other outside of the sectoral.
I don't think they necessarily need to be faster, but mobility rules (not hyper dynamics it's boring and you don't use it that much anyway) like Super Jump would be welcome and would let the model have a place. I think CB should definitely focus on the fast/mobile aspect of the armour's fluff to make sure it doesn't wind up competing with other choices in house. There's room in that area with the departure of the Shikami too, a chance for a model to fill the role the Shikami never quite nailed properly. And you might notice that all of those kind of suck in the N3 environment with nothing really setting them apart from other choices inhouse, for the Guarda and Shang Ji especially. They need an update rules wise.
I'd argue the Guarda De Assalto HI actually stands out rather nicely, mostly due to it's Auxbot. Having a bonus G: Synchronized model that can drop some reliable LOF blocking zones for it's owner or other friendly units, sacrifice itself to clear minefields and perimeter defense weapon networks, and help out in the 8'' combat range tagged onto a solid HI platform is pretty stand-out if you ask me. Which actually now gives me an idea... most likely a stupid idea, but... what if we got our own twist on the Auxbot for our Shang Ji? Perhaps a 2X Chain-Colt <Insert Yu Jing style name for an Auxbot>?
People don't use mines, DTWs, perimeter weapons, or guns that out range you in your area? Dodging on a 17 is really good for when you're in a sticky situation, especially as part of a Fireteam that attracts templates like moths. Plus it stacks with Kinematica to give some surprising speed on the Reactive turn. Also if assumptions about Shangers being in mixed links is correct then super jump would be wasted points.
While Shangers with SJ in mixed links might be wasted points... we can all agree that a link made up entirely of super jump units would be rather amusing, no?
Rodoks can do it. Zeodron/Samaritan links can do it. Once RTF drops, Khwarif/Tarik will likely be able to do it. So there's totally a precedence for it. Heck Zeodrons have 3STR and are S6 so it seems believe that power armor could do it.
From my perspective, needing to mass dodge things like missiles means you've fucked up on your placement of your link team. Group hugs are bad, m'kay. While I would preferably use throwaway units to clear mines HI are in the spot where they can shrug off stuff like mines. A Shang Ji already has an 80% pass rate against DMG 13 mines, 86% against Chain Rifles. Needing to dodge usually means you've fucked up somewhere, and a HI, particularly one in a link team, is often going to want to just trust their armour and shoot back anyway. If your average chain rifle/smoke toting idiot starts running at your HI you need to shoot them anyway or next thing you know your HI link team is going to be covered in smoke and stuck in CC where they're quite probably outclassed. You're better off tanking shots just trying to kill whatever is running at you. Super Jump on the other hand is an interesting rule, it's a fun rule. It opens up new options and avenues of attack and changes how the board plays. Hyper Dynamics is a crutch for people who screw up their placement alot. I'd rather have the interesting and fun rule rather than the boring raw stat crutch. Super Jump is only wasted on people who obsess over never breaking their links too much. Jumping around, doing things like pressing buttons, attacking from weird angles your opponent isn't guarding well can be worth breaking a link (or leaving an Aux bot behind for something like a Seraph). You can always move back and reform the link later if necessary, Command Tokens exist to be spent and there's not much reason to coordinate orders in a sectorial using a bunch of links.
How about a compromise in Climbing Plus then? Actually, I'd argue Climbing Plus would even be more interesting than Super Jump mobility wise, since it allows some interesting maneuvering options besides being able to gain LoF into places behind terrain you'd need to maneuver around and jumping small gaps. I have seen people do some interesting stuff with climbing plus, such as clinging to a catwalk between two buildings to safely cross a gap covered by an ARO piece, for example.
Su Jian already has climbing plus so it'd significantly diminish the model's value in Vanilla, to the point of you probably wouldn't take it. Models should be made to be a viable choice in Vanilla, particularly given the fact that a certain sectorial was just deleted from our rosters because "muh design space." I just had a bunch of shit taken off me, if the new toys and redesigns aren't being built with Vanilla viability in mind there will be another shit storm all over again.
I wouldn't say it'd diminish each other, since with how the Su-Jians role functions, Climbing Plus is more of an addon to it than a core feature IMO, while on the Shang Ji it would end up being a core reason why a player would take the Shang Ji. Also, I started playing shortly before Uprising came about ( If I correctly understand when it came about, I started playing like a month or two beforehand. ), so I didn't really get around to even looking into the JSA side all that much, so I don't feel the loss quite as badly, so sorry for not taking that into account.
Interesting. Interesting. Hey, maybe it'll have the few Haqq units I actually like all inside of it. Would be kinda nice. ( Granted, I know not what will be in it. ) Thanks for the info!
It would dimish the reason to take a Shang Ji in Vanilla. Why would you bring a Shang Ji as your "mobile" HI option? Ok, he's got Climbing+ The Su Jian moves faster, has better stats and more effective wounds, and can be constantly repaired by an Engineer, still a sub 60pt unit. It's not like saying why take a Dao Fei when you can just Hac Tao? Dao Fei has another super important rule that sets him apart, Infiltrate. The Hac Tao you bring for -mod applying brute force combat, the Dao Fei you take when you want to place a HI dude way up the board off the bat. They have two very distinct areas in the army that they occupy Here you just have a Su Jian lite, to which most people are just gonna go why the hell would I take this when I could just have a Su Jian? You're making them fight each other to find a place in the list and this is exactly the last thing you want to do. The Su Jian is already borderline overpowered for its cost, the only way to make the Shang Ji viable in this scenario is to make it actually overpowered.
I agree it's not a real problem, except Yu Jing just got pruned to make space for this shit. Pan-O being 3 sectorials deep, yeah they might have a little redundancy and that's fine. For Yu Jing (and Tohaa) on the other hand CB should really step up their game here in making sure everything is viable because right now we're a little short on shit here.
About the only Imperial Service HI I would expect to see in the Invincible Army (and even then in limited AVA) would be Wu Ming. No Crane, no Hsien, those are dedicated Imperial Service units. Daofei should be in the Invincible Army by fluff, but CB seems to think differently now (which is a problem, because it means there's no infiltrators in the IA). I think Hac Tao have both White Banner and Invincible Army badges.
Are we really that short on stuff though? Since if we really are lacking some roles in Vanilla, wouldn't retrofitting the Shang Ji to fit into one of them be a decent idea?
Vanilla Pan-O has access to 57 trooper options. Vanilla CA has 56 Vanilla Ariadna has 55 Vanilla Nomads have 52, increasing later this month with Tunguska Vanilla Haqqislam has 50, expected to increase this year with RTF Vanilla Yu Jing has 42 post purge. Had 55 before that. Right now I have more options than Tohaa but I feel like that's a pretty low bar we shouldn't be setting given that they are apparently now considered a sectorial not a vanilla faction. I am mildly concerned that IA will wind up being a really bland, really bad Pan-O lite faction with reduced BS and none of YJ's ability to play sideways.
